991.2 C2s early impressions from a motorcycle guy
05-30-2016, 02:06 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
991.2 C2s early impressions from a motorcycle guy
Took delivery of my 991.2 Rhodium silver C2s last Thursday. This is my first Porsche and first sports car. I am 59 so have driven a lot of average cars over the years including manuals and automatics. In the last 20 years I got into sport bikes and did quite a few track days on various high powered bikes including Suzuki Hayabusa, Suzuki GSXR-1000, Honda RC51, and my current KTM 1290 Superduke R. To give you some idea, my current KTM carries about 3.4 lbs for every 1 hp, while my C2s works out to around 8 lbs per 1 hp. Now on to the car:
Car has PDK, rear wheel steering, Premium Plus Package, Sport Package, PDCC, front axle lift, lane change assist, Bose, and fire extinguisher.
Interior: 14 way seats are fine. A lot of adjustment. No issues. Bose is OK. I did not go for the higher end sound system because at this point my hearing probably can't tell the difference. I added lane change assist almost as an afterthought and I am glad I did. Visibility out of a 911 is not terrible but not great either, and the Porsche implementation of lane change assist is really good. So glad I added that. Front axle lift has already been useful in not dragging the front in a number of instances. The fire extinguisher is bolted to the front bottom of the passenger seat but sticks out quit a bit in front of the seat. My wife is very short and the extinguisher was getting in the way of her legs. The bracket is attached to the seat by three screws so for now I have removed the bracket. Not sure what I will do with the extinguisher. General instrumentation seems fine. There is a lot of info and a lot of options for changing things but so far I have not had problems. Have not started trying to program "my screen", and am tending toward using Apple Car Play most of the time anyway. Car Play is a bit limited in some aspects so could be I will end up using the PCM system more. Time will tell.
Engine, transmission, and sound:
Pretty happy with the engine characteristics and power. I like the low end torque. The mode switch is great. I prefer running mostly in sport mode and like the exhaust burble on decel. Just sounds cool. Exhaust does not seem that loud to me although my wife wanted me to put the car in normal mode in the neighborhood due to the noise. Normal mode is economy mode. I was driving down a flat road at 35mph just cruising and the car was in 7th gear. I have not put the car in sport plus mode yet. Need some more miles. I have tried the sport response button a couple of times and love it. Gives a nice kick and presses you back in the seat even starting at highway speeds. I have not noticed any turbo lag yet but this is my first turbo engine and the car is still new to me so don't have the familiarity with the car to discern small differences. Certainly I have not been surprised by any unexpected rush of power.
PDK. Still learning this one. So far I have mostly left the paddles alone as well as the manual mode with the stick shift. I used to drive manuals all the time, but not in a car for a long time. So for now I am mostly driving in sport mode with the car shifting automatically. There does not seem to be much engine braking on decel. Will have to drive in manual mode some to see how that changes. Overall pretty happy with the PDK. It gives a lot of flexibility with how the car can be driven-moreso when combined with the mode switch. I still need to drive a lot more to better understand how to use it best.
Brakes: Brakes are great. Very strong. Very progressive.
Handling:
For me this is the biggest draw of the 911. With the PDCC and PASM sport suspension, this car just seemed glued to the road and unfazed by bumps mid corner. It stays flat and stays planted. It was a very interesting experience to do some spirited driving on back roads that I have done hundreds of times on motorcycles. I know all the turns and have a lot of experience strafing them on bikes-more recently on the big KTM which has traction control and anti-wheelie electronics. Overall for me, riding a bike fast is a lot more complicated than driving a car. There is the whole added aspect of leaning into a turn and the added risk of crashing easily if the front or back tire slides too much. Slippery stuff on the road extracts a big penalty on a bike. Rider positioning on a bike has a huge effect on handling.
That said, I know nothing about performance driving in a car, so I am pretty sure that as speeds increase the complexity and demands of driving a car or a bike fast are the same. Hard! Some aspects are the same such as trying to be as smooth as possible and picking the best lines through the turns. Driving the 911 is a LOT of fun. In a car you feel the lateral g force but on a bike you don't because of leaning. I felt like I was getting through the turns faster with the 911 than with a bike. So far I pulled 0.9 g in one right hand turn. I googled g forces and street cars and 1 g seems close to the limit so maybe I should be careful! I am a total newbie to this stuff in cars. Accelerating out of the turns is fun on the 911 but the bike is faster. I will add that all this is all done at a reasonable pace that is still safe on public roads. I learned a long time ago that if you really want to go very fast then take it to the track. The 911 is so nice because it inspires a confidence that those four fat tires are going to stick and the PDCC is doing a lot of stuff to keep the car optimized to get around the corner. I could feel the tires squirming under cornering loads and just felt like PDCC was hard at work. I have the rear wheel steering but have nothing to compare it to so can't say how it may have helped the handling. It does come it very handy making tight turns though. Really improves the turning radius. For me, the handling aspect of the 911 is where the value of the car really shines-this is why I paid the bucks for a 911. To have a car that handles like this, but still has some back seats and is one of the best street cars for hitting the track, driving to work, or driving cross country.
To bring everything back down to Earth, as I was having fun driving those back roads in my 911, I was sure hoping that some good driver in a FIAT 500, Subaru WRX, or many other cars didn't show up and hand me my ***! Speed is all relative, and track riding teaches that in a big way. Doubt I will take my 911 to the track. Too expensive for my budget, and I kind of got the track addiction out of my system with the bikes. But never say never. I would like to do some driving schools with other people's cars. Maybe when the Porsche Driving Experience opens in LA.
The only thing I would not have ordered for my car is the fire extinguisher! All the other extras I added have already shown their usefulness early on.
Car has PDK, rear wheel steering, Premium Plus Package, Sport Package, PDCC, front axle lift, lane change assist, Bose, and fire extinguisher.
Interior: 14 way seats are fine. A lot of adjustment. No issues. Bose is OK. I did not go for the higher end sound system because at this point my hearing probably can't tell the difference. I added lane change assist almost as an afterthought and I am glad I did. Visibility out of a 911 is not terrible but not great either, and the Porsche implementation of lane change assist is really good. So glad I added that. Front axle lift has already been useful in not dragging the front in a number of instances. The fire extinguisher is bolted to the front bottom of the passenger seat but sticks out quit a bit in front of the seat. My wife is very short and the extinguisher was getting in the way of her legs. The bracket is attached to the seat by three screws so for now I have removed the bracket. Not sure what I will do with the extinguisher. General instrumentation seems fine. There is a lot of info and a lot of options for changing things but so far I have not had problems. Have not started trying to program "my screen", and am tending toward using Apple Car Play most of the time anyway. Car Play is a bit limited in some aspects so could be I will end up using the PCM system more. Time will tell.
Engine, transmission, and sound:
Pretty happy with the engine characteristics and power. I like the low end torque. The mode switch is great. I prefer running mostly in sport mode and like the exhaust burble on decel. Just sounds cool. Exhaust does not seem that loud to me although my wife wanted me to put the car in normal mode in the neighborhood due to the noise. Normal mode is economy mode. I was driving down a flat road at 35mph just cruising and the car was in 7th gear. I have not put the car in sport plus mode yet. Need some more miles. I have tried the sport response button a couple of times and love it. Gives a nice kick and presses you back in the seat even starting at highway speeds. I have not noticed any turbo lag yet but this is my first turbo engine and the car is still new to me so don't have the familiarity with the car to discern small differences. Certainly I have not been surprised by any unexpected rush of power.
PDK. Still learning this one. So far I have mostly left the paddles alone as well as the manual mode with the stick shift. I used to drive manuals all the time, but not in a car for a long time. So for now I am mostly driving in sport mode with the car shifting automatically. There does not seem to be much engine braking on decel. Will have to drive in manual mode some to see how that changes. Overall pretty happy with the PDK. It gives a lot of flexibility with how the car can be driven-moreso when combined with the mode switch. I still need to drive a lot more to better understand how to use it best.
Brakes: Brakes are great. Very strong. Very progressive.
Handling:
For me this is the biggest draw of the 911. With the PDCC and PASM sport suspension, this car just seemed glued to the road and unfazed by bumps mid corner. It stays flat and stays planted. It was a very interesting experience to do some spirited driving on back roads that I have done hundreds of times on motorcycles. I know all the turns and have a lot of experience strafing them on bikes-more recently on the big KTM which has traction control and anti-wheelie electronics. Overall for me, riding a bike fast is a lot more complicated than driving a car. There is the whole added aspect of leaning into a turn and the added risk of crashing easily if the front or back tire slides too much. Slippery stuff on the road extracts a big penalty on a bike. Rider positioning on a bike has a huge effect on handling.
That said, I know nothing about performance driving in a car, so I am pretty sure that as speeds increase the complexity and demands of driving a car or a bike fast are the same. Hard! Some aspects are the same such as trying to be as smooth as possible and picking the best lines through the turns. Driving the 911 is a LOT of fun. In a car you feel the lateral g force but on a bike you don't because of leaning. I felt like I was getting through the turns faster with the 911 than with a bike. So far I pulled 0.9 g in one right hand turn. I googled g forces and street cars and 1 g seems close to the limit so maybe I should be careful! I am a total newbie to this stuff in cars. Accelerating out of the turns is fun on the 911 but the bike is faster. I will add that all this is all done at a reasonable pace that is still safe on public roads. I learned a long time ago that if you really want to go very fast then take it to the track. The 911 is so nice because it inspires a confidence that those four fat tires are going to stick and the PDCC is doing a lot of stuff to keep the car optimized to get around the corner. I could feel the tires squirming under cornering loads and just felt like PDCC was hard at work. I have the rear wheel steering but have nothing to compare it to so can't say how it may have helped the handling. It does come it very handy making tight turns though. Really improves the turning radius. For me, the handling aspect of the 911 is where the value of the car really shines-this is why I paid the bucks for a 911. To have a car that handles like this, but still has some back seats and is one of the best street cars for hitting the track, driving to work, or driving cross country.
To bring everything back down to Earth, as I was having fun driving those back roads in my 911, I was sure hoping that some good driver in a FIAT 500, Subaru WRX, or many other cars didn't show up and hand me my ***! Speed is all relative, and track riding teaches that in a big way. Doubt I will take my 911 to the track. Too expensive for my budget, and I kind of got the track addiction out of my system with the bikes. But never say never. I would like to do some driving schools with other people's cars. Maybe when the Porsche Driving Experience opens in LA.
The only thing I would not have ordered for my car is the fire extinguisher! All the other extras I added have already shown their usefulness early on.
Last edited by dflowerz; 05-30-2016 at 02:26 PM.
05-30-2016, 03:03 PM
#3
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thanks. BTW my wife is really hoping I will lose interest in the bikes and sell them! We'll see. Will take quite a few years to decide that
05-30-2016, 03:16 PM
#4
Race Director
Nice write up. Always wondered about that extinguisher. Looked like it always stuck out kinda far. I like the look though.
Last edited by STG; 05-30-2016 at 03:32 PM.
05-30-2016, 03:19 PM
#5
I suppose if you ever needed an extinguisher, it would have to be pretty accessible... I personally never understood that option - I suppose it looks really cool, but if my car was on fire, I would call the fire department and walk away... :-)
05-30-2016, 05:02 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
Think you'd be better off this way (calling the FD), with the car totaled and get a new one, rather than having it in the body shop for months, and smelling that smoke forever.
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05-30-2016, 06:33 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
05-30-2016, 06:46 PM
#10
Instructor
dflowerz, I knew from the first paragraph I would like the post. I've owned / ridden extensively 3 out of 4 of those bikes, the RC51 commonly referred to as the VTR here in UK. Its hard to go back to a 600cc when you are used to a litre - you really miss the torque. KTM is one of the few bikes I have never tried.
Good to hear you also like the PDCC; I recently enjoyed a Porsche driving experience afternoon at our local track Nutt's Corner. I know some of the so called "purists" like to quote that PDCC detracts from the driving experience as you have less information on when the car is approaching the limit but that was not my observation. As you say you can tell from the tyres squirming when you are approaching the limit and I felt the PDCC resulted in a more pleasant driving experience. I tried keeping the PDK in auto mode but it didn't really work for me on the track and would change down on corner exits as I was stepping on the gas, so switched to manual mode for most of the testing. Sport+ mode was just too abrupt on the gear changes which I thought somewhat defeated one of the objectives of the double clutch gearbox; Sport mode with paddle changes was spot on. With your biker history, I think with time you will probably enjoy a few spirited drives in manual mode too. I'm currently driving an R8 (bought from the local Porsche dealer) - quite enjoying it but I'll probably own a P car at some point in the future. But as per my first paragraph it's had to go backwards in power, so its a minimum of a C4S.
S
Good to hear you also like the PDCC; I recently enjoyed a Porsche driving experience afternoon at our local track Nutt's Corner. I know some of the so called "purists" like to quote that PDCC detracts from the driving experience as you have less information on when the car is approaching the limit but that was not my observation. As you say you can tell from the tyres squirming when you are approaching the limit and I felt the PDCC resulted in a more pleasant driving experience. I tried keeping the PDK in auto mode but it didn't really work for me on the track and would change down on corner exits as I was stepping on the gas, so switched to manual mode for most of the testing. Sport+ mode was just too abrupt on the gear changes which I thought somewhat defeated one of the objectives of the double clutch gearbox; Sport mode with paddle changes was spot on. With your biker history, I think with time you will probably enjoy a few spirited drives in manual mode too. I'm currently driving an R8 (bought from the local Porsche dealer) - quite enjoying it but I'll probably own a P car at some point in the future. But as per my first paragraph it's had to go backwards in power, so its a minimum of a C4S.
S
05-30-2016, 07:06 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
dflowerz, I knew from the first paragraph I would like the post. I've owned / ridden extensively 3 out of 4 of those bikes, the RC51 commonly referred to as the VTR here in UK. Its hard to go back to a 600cc when you are used to a litre - you really miss the torque. KTM is one of the few bikes I have never tried.
Good to hear you also like the PDCC; I recently enjoyed a Porsche driving experience afternoon at our local track Nutt's Corner. I know some of the so called "purists" like to quote that PDCC detracts from the driving experience as you have less information on when the car is approaching the limit but that was not my observation. As you say you can tell from the tyres squirming when you are approaching the limit and I felt the PDCC resulted in a more pleasant driving experience. I tried keeping the PDK in auto mode but it didn't really work for me on the track and would change down on corner exits as I was stepping on the gas, so switched to manual mode for most of the testing. Sport+ mode was just too abrupt on the gear changes which I thought somewhat defeated one of the objectives of the double clutch gearbox; Sport mode with paddle changes was spot on. With your biker history, I think with time you will probably enjoy a few spirited drives in manual mode too. I'm currently driving an R8 (bought from the local Porsche dealer) - quite enjoying it but I'll probably own a P car at some point in the future. But as per my first paragraph it's had to go backwards in power, so its a minimum of a C4S.
S
Good to hear you also like the PDCC; I recently enjoyed a Porsche driving experience afternoon at our local track Nutt's Corner. I know some of the so called "purists" like to quote that PDCC detracts from the driving experience as you have less information on when the car is approaching the limit but that was not my observation. As you say you can tell from the tyres squirming when you are approaching the limit and I felt the PDCC resulted in a more pleasant driving experience. I tried keeping the PDK in auto mode but it didn't really work for me on the track and would change down on corner exits as I was stepping on the gas, so switched to manual mode for most of the testing. Sport+ mode was just too abrupt on the gear changes which I thought somewhat defeated one of the objectives of the double clutch gearbox; Sport mode with paddle changes was spot on. With your biker history, I think with time you will probably enjoy a few spirited drives in manual mode too. I'm currently driving an R8 (bought from the local Porsche dealer) - quite enjoying it but I'll probably own a P car at some point in the future. But as per my first paragraph it's had to go backwards in power, so its a minimum of a C4S.
S
05-30-2016, 07:50 PM
#12
Instructor
Great write up. You can definitely go north of 1G in the 991 with the right pavement & turn profile. There is an on ramp near me that features an elevation profile (low point mid turn) plus slight banking that provides added down force. My g meter peak on that one is 1.35. I know this is the peak of a noisy measurement, but sustained g force mid turn is definitely north of 1G.
05-30-2016, 08:52 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
@Dflowerz, from one motorcycle guy to another.....nice, nice ride! looks great and I bet it drives great too. Congrats!!!
05-30-2016, 09:06 PM
#14
Race Car
Congats on the car- sounds amazing. Great writeup too. Just one suggestion.
- get thee to a Porsche Club "driver's ed". You will learn more about your car in a shorter time than you think possible. And ps: you can do that at ingerestingly high speeds without high revs in any 991- but especially in a 991.2 with all that low end torque in every gear.
- get thee to a Porsche Club "driver's ed". You will learn more about your car in a shorter time than you think possible. And ps: you can do that at ingerestingly high speeds without high revs in any 991- but especially in a 991.2 with all that low end torque in every gear.
05-30-2016, 11:31 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Congats on the car- sounds amazing. Great writeup too. Just one suggestion.
- get thee to a Porsche Club "driver's ed". You will learn more about your car in a shorter time than you think possible. And ps: you can do that at ingerestingly high speeds without high revs in any 991- but especially in a 991.2 with all that low end torque in every gear.
- get thee to a Porsche Club "driver's ed". You will learn more about your car in a shorter time than you think possible. And ps: you can do that at ingerestingly high speeds without high revs in any 991- but especially in a 991.2 with all that low end torque in every gear.