Pavegeno928

Yep...the 50th is the big brother to the GTS RWD...

Pavegeno928

Plus its faster than the GTS because of the numbered nameplate and chrome. But everyone knows that.

LSV

In Europe X51 was optionnal. Right now euro market for 911-50 is insane with +210'000e used cars.
For me owning a 911-50 is a state of mind. No relation with performance or investment, just me and a high reving flat6 on an empty alpine road Sunday morning...

Benedict14

Hmmmm ..... I'm curious as to what you think the suspension differences are between a C2S, a GTS and a 911-50 ?

As far as I know, all three have PASM and PTV etc. Apart from the wider body on the GTS/911-50, what do you think the differences are, specifically ?

NoGaBiker

Didn't mean offense, but since you've upped it a notch, I'll reply that I think you're actually confused about the engine, the transmission and the suspension. You seem to be clear about the Pepita seats, though.

Euro 911/50s may or may not have X51 depending on how they were ordered. US cars always have X51.

Like Benedict indicates, not sure what you think is special about the GTS suspension that differs from a C4S?

If there actually is a difference in the transmission of the GTS, that was never mentioned on the 911/50. Some on here have researched GTS transmission and shift linkage part numbers extensively and claim to have found no differences between C2S part numbers. On the other hand, numerous reviewers have attested to feeling a shifting difference between GTS and C2. Porsche's launch material mentioned very unspecific improvements in GTS manual shifting vs. C2S; such was not the case (that I've ever seen) with 911/50 ad materials.

Cheers!

Traffic53

We might be like ships passing in the night on the communication front. I'm not offended and i'm no more confused about the powertrains and suspension options available than anyone else. I've read all the road tests and reviews as well as studied the product brochures and Porsche-issued literature on all the 991 cars. My take-away is that the 2015 GTS is widely considered to be the best feel of the 991.1 cars. It's the one 991 that all the journo's seem to agree is the best choice for the road. The ride of the GTS is different/firmer than a C2S or C4S. I've been shopping them and driving them back-to-back. The GTS feels different, period. Why? I don't really know. Nobody writing these articles detail what differences might be found in the suspensions of the GTS and C4S- but they are certainly confident in the notion that are indeed changes from the standard C2S. Chris Harris is well-respected in these parts. He says the GTS has a "slightly tauter chassis than a C2S" and "the combination of 10mm suspension drop over the C2S and the standard PASM suspension with geometry tweaks has released something from the steering. I don’t know how or why, but this is by some margin the sweetest electric rack I’ve used."

Taught(er) with geometry tweeks and a different feeling steering rack? I don't dismiss the possibl;ility that Harris could be full of hot air in this particular regard, except that he seems to echo what several others have also said. He goes on to discuss the gearbox in saying: "I initially enjoyed the new shift quality and straightening of the general 5th,6th,7th relationship – which didn’t work on the first cars with this gearbox." Again, is he full of hot air on this?

Listen- this is probably immaterial for many shopping for a 911. But, it's worth getting to the bottom of as far as projected desirability. In 10 years- heck, now- what 991 would you want? Which one will maintain value and continue to be the 991 that people shop for? History tells us that it's the best of the breed. The one with the most power, best tranny, best ride and best looking. I'd love for that to be the 50th car, but I think the GTS might be a better drive.

Again- I'd love to be wrong. I hope the 50th is a GTS with fancy seats. I just don't think it is.

NoGaBiker

Well, sure, it feels different to Chris Harris because a GTS2 will have decidedly different handling feel than either a C2S (narrower, different wheels and tires, different suspension components or tuning on the GTS to take the wider track into account) or the C4S (obviously quite a bit different feel than a RWD 911.) What he doesn't say, that I've heard anyway, is that the GTS feels better in back-to-back drives than a 911/50, the only other way to sample the same wide-body RWD configuration as the GTS2. Which is your question, of course. But I don't think you can trot out GTS2 vs C2S comparisons to support the idea that 911/50 is suspended differently than GTS2, or that GTS2 is suspended differently than C4S for that matter. Sure, it feels different than C4S, but may have the same suspension tuning in back. But most likely different in front.


:shrug: Fair enough. As a GTS2 owner, I'd rather have a Geyser/Pepita 911/50 outfitted just as mine is than the GTS2 I currently have. Not by much, mind you, but to me the performance delta, if any, is so minute that the aesthetics delta, which for me is large and in favor of the 50th, trumps it decidedly. I imagine such will be the case 10 years from now, 20 years from now, and 50 years from now.

For instance, compare prices of 2.0 and 2.2 and 2.4 liter LWB 911Ss from 69-73. Power and torque bumps with each increase in displacement gave small performance improvements, yet a Tangerine or Mexico or Jade Green 2.2 will out sell a silver-over-black 2.4 every day of the week today. Of course, a '73 2.7 Carrera RS will outsell all of them no matter the color. But that is due to a) serious racing provenance itself, as well as being the homologation car for the 2.8RSR which won Daytona 24 outright, and b) significantly better performance than the S due to bigger, stronger motor and many expensive lightweight mods and c) first street 911 with fender flares and staggered wheel/tire sizes so it looks butcher than an S.

But today's analog to this is the 911R, or GT3 or GT3RS. Not the GTS.

77tony

I've owned both. The 50th had a glass roof and the current GTS is a cab. That said and with the roofs closed, they feel almost identical to me (maybe I'm num ?) Both optioned about the same, and with 18 ways leather heated/ventilated seats in the 50th and alcanatara (heated only) in the GTS. Now that the MC's are gone, my wife and I thought it would be fun to switch to a Cab to keep the wind blowing though our hair. Both are wonderful cars, get what you (& yours ?) like. T

STG

There are NONE.

The only option being SPASM on any model except cabs and Targas. Everything else is a placebo effect. Including the gearbox rumors.

Benedict14

Hmmmm. Thanks STG, there's no need to shout. I was attempting to use the rhetorical, in an attempt to point out politely; that Traffic53 believes in fairy dust. To no avail it seems.

I can't be bothered to quote Traffics53's last quote, however; Harris's reference to "drop" eluded to the difference between SPASM and PASM (10mm vs 20mm). As far as "feel" is concerned - it's subjective by its very nature. On that I'm sure we can agree.

I'm amused that this rabbit hole is so deep. Congratulations Traffic53. It's like a 991 time warp

Traffic53

fairy dust? who is this f$%*$%g guy?
go ride a bike off a pier.

fine. the cars are all the same. i'm comfortable leaving it at that. I had no intention of disturbing the 991 Forum matrix. just asking questions.

namaste.

golfnutintib

gosh... so much spewn energy over a non issue

50th is a 991 gts mechanically (minus the centerlocks)

if one believes otherwise, they shd buy whichever they think is the better car...or not...

in ten years, all else equal, 50th will be more desirable than a gts most likely, it is a special edition car commemorating a historic point in the company legacy, just like a club blau pca gts will be more valued than a regular one...

and oh btw... best of breed 991 is neither of these, its a gt3/rs

Benedict14

If you were merely "just asking questions", you'd be neither so irate, nor so surprised by the multiple answers to your multiple "questions"/opinions.

Buy one and see. I'd go with the 50; But - it doesn't have the magical fairy dust suspension.

silvertige

Agreed... X10. . Someone might read this thread and actually believe there are differences in the suspensions for a GTS v. 911 50th V. CS. Lol.

Traffic53

you backed me into a corner here, buddy. i surrender.
i appear to have lost my mind. i can see now that i wasn't "just asking questions", but involved in a complex web of deceit and finagling.

you win. the cars are the same. i'm a moron.
there's not going to be cake.