Senna01

For what it's worth I thought I'd share my thoughts on the new 991.2 C2S.

Bit of car history first. I'm based in the UK and I've owned quite a few 'quick' cars in the past from RS500 Cosworth's in the late 80's together with an RS200 (crazy group B car) tuned to 600BHP plus.

Also had 964, 993 and my most recent Porsche, a 997.2 PDK, which I sold last year and not replaced as I have other cars.

My dealership loaned me a 991 C2S PDK a while back when it was launched and after a 2 day test drive I passed on the car even though I thought was great. I often drive a friends 991 when we go out together so I'm very familiar with the car.

The car I drove for a few hours was a 991.2 C2S PDK.

First up the subject of turbo lag. Every now and again someone seems to mention turbo lag and I have to say I find this quite amusing.

You want lag, try a late 80's Cosworth which basically uses a single large truck turbo. Nothing....nothing....nothing.... then at 3k RPM it sends a telegraph before it finally starts to hit you at 3.5k RPM.

Lets put something to bed right now. The new 991.2 is nothing like that. There is virtually zero noticeable lag....period!

As an aside, I travelled to the dealership with my friends 991 C2S so I could get a fresh and immediate back to back comparison with the new car, a before and after if you will.

Stepping out of the new .2C2S after a few hours and getting into my friends car for the journey back to his place, I noticed lag. Not Turbo lag, another form of lag..........torque lag. Stay with me here.

I'm not saying you have to wring the back side out of the current 991C2S to get it to move along but the fact that peak torque comes in a lot higher up the rev range is almost like having a form of lag. Don't get me wrong, when you're screaming along at illegal breakneck speeds, which I never do of course this form of 'lag' doesn't matter as you are forever at the high end of the rev range (the torque sweet spot).

Let's face it though, the majority of the time, especially if you live in a densely populated area (big town or city), you will not be sitting in that torque sweet spot. The new car is quite transformative in this regard. Almost the moment you touch the gas pedal the car wants to pull you forward by the scruff of your neck. Let's set aside the fact that the new car offers more power by way of BHP. The real jewel in the crown of this engine is the incredible drivability it offers at all times........ from the moving around town moments to the screaming along stuff the car is a joy to drive!

I grant you the current 991 sounds great and always has but the 991.2 also sounds great, albeit it offers a different 'voice'.

PSE is a must on the new car as the car is quiet when driven normally, perfect for a late night return without waking up the neighborhood.

However when the PSE is activated Mr Hyde makes an appearance with a great raspy sound that crackles on downshifts and makes all sorts of weird and wonderful noises.

The new GT and normal wheel steering wheel looks great. The new infotainment system is also another big forward step and something the car was crying out for IMO. The PDK shifts are super responsive and the gearbox just refuses to be in the wrong gear at any given time. Virtual perfection in my view.

I hated the vertical slat engine vents when I saw the first pictures but in the flesh they look absolutely amazing. So much so that the current horizontal slats now look like something from the dark ages for me (sorry Dan if you're reading this).

I love everything about the new car and am currently living on the configurator

subshooter

That was an outstanding review. Thank you!

Helios59

I had an admittedly brief test drive in a non-S yesterday and agree that the torque is always right there, right now. The car I drove had all the goodies including Sport Chrono and the "fun button" on the steering wheel allowing you to select different driving modes.

It's a beautifully thought-out car. Steering is great...I have no problem with the electric rack. Chassisis wonderfully balanced and the interior quality is very nice.

Having once owned an S2000 I know how great a high-winding engine can be, but I was really impressed with this car.

Gus_Smedstad

I can't agree the torque is anything like constant. I test drove a 991.2 C4S yesterday, and I felt several abrupt increases in torque. I've driven 3 991.1 C2S's, a GTS, and a Targa 4S in the last week - yes, I'm shopping for a car - and the torque was far, far more predictable.

However, it wasn't like the car was slow. It was more like "this is pretty good" and suddenly "WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT?" It felt consistently as fast as the 991.1, it's just that sometimes there was more.

I was driving in Sport, despite the car having that really nifty mode dial. I quickly decided I really didn't need Sport+ in the car. I really like that dial by the way - it's so much better than the center console buttons. I'm currently driving a Panamera SeH, which really needs me to shift modes frequently, and I wish I could do it by feel the way I can with the 991.2 steering wheel.

oalvarez

Does the same question/complaint about "lag" surface in relation to the current 991 Turbo or 911 Turbo predecessors? It's amazing how big of a sticking point/topic it's become with the 991.2, almost as though folks are (desperately) trying to find some one thing to bring failure to the car.

28911

Minimal or not, the new 991.2 has turbo lag. All turbo cars have lag some more some less but it is there. For me it is noticeable for other it might not be. I own a few sports cars and have owned Turbo cars before like the F10 M5 TTV8 MT which is the car with least turbo lag I have ever driven IMHO. Plus I drive Turbo cars regurlarly in my work trips to Europe. Yes, NA cars' torque comes a higher rpm and yes you might get a sensation of waiting for it but that is not lag, in a NA car the throttle response is linear at all times throught the complete rev range.

Senna01

Have you looked at torque curves published by tuners and others?

The torque curve for the new engines are non existent, flat as a pancake from way lower down than the 991 NA engine so disagree completely about the several 'abrupt' increases in torque.

With respect according to your comments we should be seeing a mountain range like up/down graph with the new engines torque figures which frankly nobody is seeing!

Senna01

All turbo engines have lag. However turbo's kick in a lot lower down the rev range with most modern turbo charged engines with the new cars turbochargers kicking in just a 1k RPM above idle or thereabouts.

If that's not pretty much instant I don't know what is. I'd take that anyday with the flexibility and torque muscle the new engines offer.

simp2601

Having driven a 991.2CS twice now, the last time for a whole day, I completely agree with Senna01. There is no detectable turbo lag. One of my previous cars was a Subaru Impreza with Prodrive mods. That had turbo lag, especially after a period of trailing throttle where the revs had been allowed to drop.

I was very impressed with the car and quite liked the fact that it was quieter than a NA 991.1 - much more relaxing if you are driving some distance but it can be made to make the right noises when required. Anyway, the bottom line is that I was so impressed by the car that I have ordered one. I can't wait to try it round a track where I suspect it will give pre 991 GT3s a run for their money.

Incidentally, I didn't find there were any surges in torque as described by Gus Smedstad. It all seemed pretty linear to me with the revs rising like an NA car when accelerating hard, but just faster.

I will report back when I have got my car and driven it for a bit.

joshg120

It's funny to me how wide of a spectrum we are getting as far as reviews on the 991.2 are concerned. I think current 991.1 owners are injecting a strong personal bias into their reviews and seemingly criticizing almost all aspects of the cars and downplaying indisputable upgrades such as the infotainment system. The people who are coming into it with an open mind and driving the car seem to be pretty impressed with the car and enjoy the new features and design elements. It would be really tough for me to make an opinion on the car based on the reviews i've read on this forum.

GrantG

Torque curves on turbocharged motors are very deceiving, since you need to have maximum load on the motor to replicate anything close to them (i.e. going uphill in a high gear). Otherwise you will never see max torque at under 2k rpm...

Unlike a simple two dimensional graph of torque vs. rpm with an NA motor, you almost need a third variable (engine load) to get a good picture of the available torque.

Gus_Smedstad

I'm just telling you what I felt. Maybe I misinterpreted what was going on, but it was a distinctly different feel from the NA GTS I drove a few minutes later. It never felt slower than the GTS - it's just sometimes it was a lot faster.

I signed a purchase agreement on a 2014 4S today. On the whole, I'd much rather have the 2017 4S I test drove, but I could not justify the ~$40k more it would have cost me.

Chris3963

I don't blame you. An awful lot of negative stuff from people that have never even driven one.

I own NA Porsches plus have now had over a week's seat time in 991.2 S both on the road, on the track at Leipzig and on ice in Finland. So I possibly have more diverse seat time than anybody else on this forum and I can categorically tell you that the only dimension missing is the sound. For sure that 991.1 is better in that area, but the 991.2 is still good. Different but good.

In all other dimensions, the 991.2 is the superior car....by a long way. For some people, the sound and the emotion that goes with the 991.1 will override everything else, but if you want to buy the best car, it's the 991.2.

R_Rated

A lot of these reviews... driving in the right gear in a 991.1 will do amazing things for the torque. It is a high revving engine and should be driven as such.

It's the same dialogue that was prevalent when the BMW 335 came out vs the E46 M3.... the M3 was actually faster (unlike the 991.1 vs .2) but the 335 "felt" faster and was a much more suitable engine for a daily driven street car.

I came from a blown v8 with way more torque and hp and recommend the .1 for fun and the .2 for a daily... the .1 is more fun and I enjoy it a lot more on poor gravely roads in the mountains. The 991.1 for me is the better buy for my wants but also recognize that the only "new" porsche that is welcomed by all porsche people is the Singer

oalvarez

you think? good grief!

i don't get what all the angst is about....a new 911. if you like it, buy it, if not, don't! i've got nothing against the new car, at least on paper, and having two friends at my place of work will make it easier for me to drive (991.2 Targa 4, Carrera 4s). really looking forward to taking them for a whirl. )

that's a lot of seat time.....tough to counter anything you say, but for some reason many here will probably disagree. we're not talking about what car is best for them (i.e., "the sound of the 991.1 speaks to me", "i don't like the shape of the LED lights") but what car is actually superior (power, torque, steering, electronics, etc). it's hard to say that Porsche has produced INFERIOR cars each time a new 911 model was introduced. no, not whether one is better looking or not, but one that is not mechanically superior in the aforementioned areas.

i wonder when we'll be able to put the "lag" issue to rest....my co-workers don't complain of any, maybe they don't know what to look for or perhaps there's a recall forthcoming. major congrats on the purchase!