Dewinator

When I read that press release, it sounds like they may be describing changes in the 991 manual and not necessarily changes that are new to the GTS.

Plus, Porsche AG describes the Cayenne as a sports car in their press releases, and it's obviously an SUV, so that's how much credibility their marketting department has.

STG

Quote sounds like it could've come out of a soft **** romance novel.

I'd be more concerned about any ill effects of your engine grill with a ducktail

NoGaBiker

:shrug: Okay. I'd try to change the subject too...

NoGaBiker

This was how I took it as well, that the supposed improvements were introduced on GTS but would be the standard gearbox going forward.

STG

Exactly on paragraph 1.

They say the Macan has 911 DNA too. Heard so many sales guys says its like a 911

Porsche's marketing mumbo jumbo at work leaves a lot to the imagination.

mtgadbois

My read of that press release is that the new 911GTS (type 991) has an improved shifter and transmission when compared to the previous version of the 911GTS (type 997). Agree/disagree?

Noah Fect

I'd be utterly amazed if any modern mass-production automaker would do that. Changing parts without a paper trail in the form of a new part number is like mailing yourself a time bomb.

Didn't GM just throw a senior engineer under the bus for doing that in connection with the ignition-switch fiasco?

NoGaBiker

That's quite a stretch, given that one was a 6-speed and the other a completely different 7-speed. And the opening sentences references the "classic 7-speed" then goes on to say there's an improvement to it in the form of blah, blah, blah.

I think your interpretation requires quite a bending of the common rules of syntax.

Look, I have no dog in the hunt. I don't own a 7M and I've never owned one. All my previous Porsches have been 6Ms. I've never driven a 991 GTS 7M to say whether I believe there's a noticeable change or not. I've not researched the question endlessly on the internet. I've not interviewed Herr Dr. Ing. Hartmut Sphinchtgut as to whether he personally oversaw the inclusion of new components that improved shifting. I'm just going by the English wording contained in the quoted press release. And I happen to be an expert on English.

NoGaBiker

You're amazed that it could happen, then offer an example of it happening? At the world's largest car company?

I don't know anything about such practices these days -- been out of the OEM supply loop for 20 years now. But it certainly has been the practice of "mass-production automakers." As to how "modern" the 1980s is I can't say.

STG

Just so you know, when Porsche makes changes to a part, they do give it new part numbers or add something to it for a version #.

Geez, they are even on their third version of the 991 GT3 motor. You wouldn't know that unless you looked at the numbers (actually letters)!

So other than marketing fluff, you have nothing to go off of?? You should sue Porsche for false advertising then. See how far that goes. They'll tell you what's been mentioned above

NoGaBiker

Okay, STG, you've obviously got an emotional stake in there not being any improvements to the gearbox since you bought yours. Let's go with that. I'll stipulate that your gearbox is every bit as good -- let's say it's exactly the same -- as any other 991 gearbox.

Cheers!

STG

I have PDK no "emotional" stake with anything other than the truth.

Just stating the facts. We've discussed this at length way back when.

All is good

todd92

NoGaBiker

Oh well then, touché! That was all I could come up with.

I just thought of another analogous situation that certainly doesn't prove Porsche is not lying about their claims, but offers a similar "no part number variation to back up improved performance claims."

I decided to try a non-911 Porsche in 2004 when the first special Ed Boxster s came out. It touted 264 hp, up 6 from the normal 258. Whoohoo! Of course nobody could feel 6hp, but the interior was gorgeous and the GT Silver paint was exclusive to that model and the C-GT, so I sprung for it. Great car by the way.

Anyway, when the IMSb issue started turning up, several guys on the boards with the Boxster SE had to get new motors from Porsche. Of course they wanted their extra 6hp. So we began researching it. The M96 engine family was identified by suffixes to indicate displacement and version, i.e.: 2.5 was M96-20 (going from memory here so don't quote me), 3.2 V1 was M96-21, 2.7 V1 was M96-22, and so on. The 2003 Version 2 of the 3.2 was M96-25, iirc. So the big question became, if the dealer orders an M96-25 are they getting the 258 or 264hp motor? No way to tell. So we started looking at ancillary systems that were said to contribute to the extra 6hp, namely intake, exhaust. But no differences in part numbers existed there either. But some people, comparing actual intake systems, noticed different shapes. The parts were not identical, yet they fit onto the same mounting points and were interchangeable.

But there was also talk that the cams were different, yet no part number existed at that time for a different cam for the 986-25. Bottiom line, if you needed a new motor for your regular 986S and wanted to "upgrade" to the SE motor, there was no way to do so by using different part numbers.

So one of two situations existed: either Porsche was lying about different power from the SE, or they were shipping more powerful motors and/or intake systems without giving them different part numbers.

Like I said, it doesn't prove they're not lying now, but if so they have a long history of claiming little incremental changes that don't actually exist. And it would seem if that's what they're doing every time, there would be somebody who would have ratted them out by now.

And let's face it: if you're going to lie, why confine yourself to 6hp?

jimbo1111

Good point. Its only a lie when you get caught. EPA and VW come to mind.

Ive also heard rumors that the grease use in the linkages was changed to graphite. Wink Wink.

The latest ongoing rumor is that the GTS has the same 7 speed as the 991.2.

I don't believe the internal parts of the transmission are listed individually anywhere. So Porsche's transmission builder can update the internal parts at some point and still carry the same part number for the complete transmission without notifying the parts department or even Porsche for that matter.

They are dealing with an out sourced vendor so its possible and not inconceivable that changes were made without expressively notifying Porsche at all. What we tend to forget is that these cars are manufactured by many different companies outside of Porsche. Porsche packages them and the end result that we call the 911. Is in fact a bunch of out sourced parts from various vendors.