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Regulatory agencies test the car in the default state. Allowing the owner to change the default would be seen as circumvention.
So what if, rather than Sport and Sport+ buttons, and if none of these are pushed you have "off" as the default state (current practice with 911), Porsche had designed a **** with three positions: Sport, Sport+, and EcoFriendlySpottedOwl. The **** could be put in any position and left there. There is no "default." Which do they decide is the one they'll test it with?
We have a Grand Cherokee with just such a **** for traction software. It can put the Jeep 4WD system in Sand, Rock, Snow, Road, or 4Lo settings, and leave it there. In fact, the **** HAS to be in one of the settings, but there's no "preference" in the hardware or software of one over the other. So, since I can leave the Jeep in 4Lo and it will still be there when I get back in, did Jeep have to certify the GC in that mode?
Of course the answer is no. So even if there is some sort of rule about the default setting for the current 911 setup, seems like it would be easy to confound it by just making a trivial change to the user interface. In fact, isn't the 991.2 going to some sort of steering wheel ****, like Ferrari's Manetino?
I think I know the answer, but would it be possible to for instance make Sport+ default on, but take out the fake crackles, burbles and pops? I like the other settings in Sport+ (and Sport) but the fake exhaust sounds annoy me to bits.
I think I know the answer, but would it be possible to for instance make Sport+ default on, but take out the fake crackles, burbles and pops? I like the other settings in Sport+ (and Sport) but the fake exhaust sounds annoy me to bits.
You know you can turn PSE off and still be in Sport+, right? All crackling and burbling gone, presto!
I, on the otherhand, like Sport+ minus the shock setting; fortunately I can just turn on S+ and then turn off the shock setting. (For regular street driving -- not for spirited mountain driving, where I want the shock setting on.)
You know you can turn PSE off and still be in Sport+, right? All crackling and burbling gone, presto!
I, on the otherhand, like Sport+ minus the shock setting; fortunately I can just turn on S+ and then turn off the shock setting. (For regular street driving -- not for spirited mountain driving, where I want the shock setting on.)
You're really sure? My 981 is hibernating in the garage and has since I picked it up, so I can't check but on my 997, the PSE button only opened and closed the valve for more or less sound. The sport/sport+ buttons control the other stuff, SW-wise, which are PSM settings, throttle response, PASM setting, dynamic engine mounts (if you have those) - and fake exhaust noise.
And that's also how it works on 981/991 - or so I thought...
(Please note that I make a disctinction between sound and noise )
You know you can turn PSE off and still be in Sport+, right? All crackling and burbling gone, presto!
Thought about it a bit more - it's brilliant if that's how it works. But please tell me what happens if you are in Normal and push PSE - does the crackle and pops start then or does it just open the valves?
Thought about it a bit more - it's brilliant if that's how it works. But please tell me what happens if you are in Normal and push PSE - does the crackle and pops start then or does it just open the valves?
NoGaBiker is correct. You can push sport + and then push PSE button to off, you stay in sport + but at the valves closed setting. Same with sport suspension you can engage sport + and turn suspension setting to normal.
Twisty mountain roads: Sport Plus (default SPASM Sport, default Sport Exhaust On, default AS/S Off) Last week's 3.5 hour mountain run yielded 16 mpg
High Speed Autobahn: Sport Plus (default Sport Exhaust On, default AS/S off, & Manual SPASM Normal-too twitchy at high speeds) Usually about 21 mpg
Regulated Autobahn: Sport Plus (SPASM Sport if I'm alone otherwise SPASM manual Normal, default AS/S off, & default Sport Exhaust On) Usually about 25 mpg
Fuel Economy: Normal (default SPASM Normal, AS/S On, & Sport Exhaust Off) and as quick as possible to 7th gear (upshift at 2000 RPM). Usually over 30 mpg
Apologies for gently guiding this one back on topic y'all, but the results are in
To recap: I have Fabspeed sport headers (the ones with the 200 cell cats) on my 991 GTS and had to return the car to stock to get some warranty work done. I took it down to Rebellion Automotive, my long-time tuning shop who installed the headers and who now have a dyno, and carried out four runs, two with the Fabspeed headers and two with the car returned to stock.
Here is the readout for all four runs.
Points to notice: 1) The car seems to be producing a lot less power than Porsche claims. This may have something to do with having to run the dyno in 4WD mode even though the car is RWD, because 991s freak out if the rear wheels are turning and the front wheels aren't. Whatever the reason I'm not too bothered. I don't think my engine is defective or my car too slow!
2) The torque seems to come in really early. Sure 'peak' tq is at over 5,000 which is where Porsche says it is, but we're getting most of it by 3k, and well over 2/3 of it by 2k. This seems to provide some evidence against the GTS engine being 'peaky'...
3) The curves look pretty darn similar. Rebellion said that all were within the margin of fluctuation for dyno operation. I'm afraid that, other than making the car a bit louder, it doesn't appear that the Fabspeed headers do anything.
This becomes more uncomfortably evident when we compare the best Fabspeed run (the first) with the best stock run (the second).
The car puts out 10hp more at peak with the stock setup. Rebellion said they wouldn't call this sufficient evidence that the stock headers are superior (margin of fluctuation again), but that there is definitely no performance advantage to using the Fabspeed ones on a GTS. This seems particularly true because there is no change in the shape of the curve - no ironing out of the dip at 2.5k for example. Also, I know Porsche ECUs adapt to mods, and we didn't do more than warm the car up thoroughly on the dyno after we changed the headers over, but it seems noteworthy that it was the second run with the stock headers that was the better...
To be fair to Fabspeed, their website uses a readout for a C4, not an S, and not a GTS,
and no specific claims for the GTS are made. But when they sold me the headers they knew I had a GTS and did claim power would be increased.
I was also surprised by the appearance of the headers when we took them off. On November 17 they looked like this:
But less than 3 months later, this:
and this:
A number of the bolts were so corroded that they snapped when being undone. After less than 3 months' use.
Let me be clear that I enjoyed doing business with Fabspeed and they were never anything other than courteous, quick to reply and helpful. I do not feel I was deliberately misled, but am nevertheless disappointed that this particular product, which has a list price of $2,995, was in my particular case was both of lower physical quality than it first appeared and failed to perform half of its advertised function (increasing power).
I did like the feel of the car with the headers on, and wrote to Fabspeed saying this, but knowing now that this was simply because the car was louder (yup - the Ratbutt-dyno got fooled) means that I cannot put them back on the car in good conscience when the warranty work is complete. If I'm going to do something that makes my car environmentally more harmful, I need it also to make the car faster. Not much, but a bit, and definitely not, as a literal interpretation of the dyno would suggest, 10hp slower. There is also the minor point that I couldn't get them back on as are because all the bolts are rotten.
NoGaBiker is correct. You can push sport + and then push PSE button to off, you stay in sport + but at the valves closed setting. Same with sport suspension you can engage sport + and turn suspension setting to normal.
Sorry for thread drift but, yes, that logic is the same as the 997. My question was - are the farts, crackles and pops connected to the PSE button or the Sport/Sport+ buttons? If they are in fact connected to the PSE button (which I doubt) the I just make sure the button is off, disconnect the connector (valves open) and acheive a clean, loud sound without fake noise even in Sport/Sport+. But as I said, I doubt it.
I am sure if you call Fabspeed, they will send you new bolts.
Sorry to hear, but I guess chalk it up to a new lesson learned. Few mods ever really lives up to marketing claims made.
I hear you. Wasn't expecting a full live-up to claims, but if one fits an apparently less restrictive exhaust part it seems reasonable to expect it to make some change, somewhere in the rev range, no?
P.S. Rebellion Automotive would like to clarify that they did 10 dyno runs, including adaptations and warm-ups. The four published here were the test ones.
02-10-2016, 11:15 PM
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