Fabspeed Race headers
10-05-2015, 11:38 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Fabspeed Race headers
How many people are running the Fabspeed Race headers?
Noticeably louder than stock (or even the 200 filter ones)?
I currently have the AWE switchpatch on my C2S and with the valves open its pretty loud (love it). Trying to get an idea how how much louder these race headers would be.
Noticeably louder than stock (or even the 200 filter ones)?
I currently have the AWE switchpatch on my C2S and with the valves open its pretty loud (love it). Trying to get an idea how how much louder these race headers would be.
10-06-2015, 12:09 AM
#3
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Thread Starter
Its a great system.
No i do not track it.. but its just a weekend car so i don't mind hearing the engine in all her uninhibited glory.
10-06-2015, 12:49 AM
#4
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Headers are going to do tee-tee.....almost nothing for power or sound on their own. If you want more sound, then 200 cell cats will do it. Careful what you wish for though, you can't turn it down once they are installed. Loud can be fun but do you want loud all the time?
10-06-2015, 01:04 AM
#5
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Thread Starter
Headers are going to do tee-tee.....almost nothing for power or sound on their own. If you want more sound, then 200 cell cats will do it. Careful what you wish for though, you can't turn it down once they are installed. Loud can be fun but do you want loud all the time?
Yes.
Also, do they really not do much? Fabspeed claims 27hp.
10-06-2015, 06:47 AM
#6
Racer
no way!
10-06-2015, 06:49 AM
#7
Nordschleife Master
27 hp gain - don't believe the hype.
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10-06-2015, 12:25 PM
#8
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Claims...claims...claims....if you add up all the claims in power by bolting on mods, you could make 100 more HP (claimed) for about $ 5K.
Just basics here - very basic. An internal engine is a big air pump, so if you want more power you have to put more through the pump. That's why turbos and superchargers exist, they compress air and put a lot more into an engine. If you are putting in lots of air on the front end, then you need to evacuate it fully on the back end as efficiently as possible. That means a low restriction exhaust, as free-flowing as possible.
Once catalytic converters came into use they became the restrictive point in the exhaust. You can open up the header all you want but that air is still going to be stopped up and slowed by the cats, so if you want power - then you have to put lo-restriction cats on the car, which are typically called 200 cell cats. Do that and with a free flowing exhaust (all three mufflers on a 991) you are doing pretty well on the backside of the engine. The 991 factory headers are pretty nice already (I've had mine off the car), they're not like a 4 into 1 dump off an old 327 Chevy small block. But those cats also restrict a lot of noise, so when you do 200 cell unit, be prepared for window-rattling sound that you can hear for blocks.
Now that you have headers, 200 cell cats and aftermarket mufflers, what are you going to do on the front end to put more air in the car? Change the air filters? That's not nearly enough. Then you will need to re-map the car, and I'm not sure who has the talent to do that on a current 991. The DME's are so locked down now, the days of chip swaps and re-flash are long gone. The manufacturer's have that coded up now so they release new software in new models for more HP, especially on turbo units. They're not letting any tuner go in there and get access with a laptop. Porsches new 991.2 with the dual turbos will be nearly impossible to crack open for more boost, but when Porsche wants to add 50 hp they can do it just by adding new code to change the boost - that's all being built into the new engine. Right now it exists in the Macan. S vs Turbo - they are both turbo V6 engines, once just had more code tweak.
Bottom line - if you want noise, then mod away. The only performance gains you will likely get in the back end alone is reduced weight, but the factory exhaust is fairly light already. I run a Tubi Exhaust on my 991S (stock cats and headers) and it was few pounds lighter but not as much as I expected. Power gain? None that I know of, but it has good tone
Just basics here - very basic. An internal engine is a big air pump, so if you want more power you have to put more through the pump. That's why turbos and superchargers exist, they compress air and put a lot more into an engine. If you are putting in lots of air on the front end, then you need to evacuate it fully on the back end as efficiently as possible. That means a low restriction exhaust, as free-flowing as possible.
Once catalytic converters came into use they became the restrictive point in the exhaust. You can open up the header all you want but that air is still going to be stopped up and slowed by the cats, so if you want power - then you have to put lo-restriction cats on the car, which are typically called 200 cell cats. Do that and with a free flowing exhaust (all three mufflers on a 991) you are doing pretty well on the backside of the engine. The 991 factory headers are pretty nice already (I've had mine off the car), they're not like a 4 into 1 dump off an old 327 Chevy small block. But those cats also restrict a lot of noise, so when you do 200 cell unit, be prepared for window-rattling sound that you can hear for blocks.
Now that you have headers, 200 cell cats and aftermarket mufflers, what are you going to do on the front end to put more air in the car? Change the air filters? That's not nearly enough. Then you will need to re-map the car, and I'm not sure who has the talent to do that on a current 991. The DME's are so locked down now, the days of chip swaps and re-flash are long gone. The manufacturer's have that coded up now so they release new software in new models for more HP, especially on turbo units. They're not letting any tuner go in there and get access with a laptop. Porsches new 991.2 with the dual turbos will be nearly impossible to crack open for more boost, but when Porsche wants to add 50 hp they can do it just by adding new code to change the boost - that's all being built into the new engine. Right now it exists in the Macan. S vs Turbo - they are both turbo V6 engines, once just had more code tweak.
Bottom line - if you want noise, then mod away. The only performance gains you will likely get in the back end alone is reduced weight, but the factory exhaust is fairly light already. I run a Tubi Exhaust on my 991S (stock cats and headers) and it was few pounds lighter but not as much as I expected. Power gain? None that I know of, but it has good tone
10-06-2015, 04:22 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
Claims...claims...claims....if you add up all the claims in power by bolting on mods, you could make 100 more HP (claimed) for about $ 5K.
Just basics here - very basic. An internal engine is a big air pump, so if you want more power you have to put more through the pump. That's why turbos and superchargers exist, they compress air and put a lot more into an engine. If you are putting in lots of air on the front end, then you need to evacuate it fully on the back end as efficiently as possible. That means a low restriction exhaust, as free-flowing as possible.
Once catalytic converters came into use they became the restrictive point in the exhaust. You can open up the header all you want but that air is still going to be stopped up and slowed by the cats, so if you want power - then you have to put lo-restriction cats on the car, which are typically called 200 cell cats. Do that and with a free flowing exhaust (all three mufflers on a 991) you are doing pretty well on the backside of the engine. The 991 factory headers are pretty nice already (I've had mine off the car), they're not like a 4 into 1 dump off an old 327 Chevy small block. But those cats also restrict a lot of noise, so when you do 200 cell unit, be prepared for window-rattling sound that you can hear for blocks.
Now that you have headers, 200 cell cats and aftermarket mufflers, what are you going to do on the front end to put more air in the car? Change the air filters? That's not nearly enough. Then you will need to re-map the car, and I'm not sure who has the talent to do that on a current 991. The DME's are so locked down now, the days of chip swaps and re-flash are long gone. The manufacturer's have that coded up now so they release new software in new models for more HP, especially on turbo units. They're not letting any tuner go in there and get access with a laptop. Porsches new 991.2 with the dual turbos will be nearly impossible to crack open for more boost, but when Porsche wants to add 50 hp they can do it just by adding new code to change the boost - that's all being built into the new engine. Right now it exists in the Macan. S vs Turbo - they are both turbo V6 engines, once just had more code tweak.
Bottom line - if you want noise, then mod away. The only performance gains you will likely get in the back end alone is reduced weight, but the factory exhaust is fairly light already. I run a Tubi Exhaust on my 991S (stock cats and headers) and it was few pounds lighter but not as much as I expected. Power gain? None that I know of, but it has good tone
Just basics here - very basic. An internal engine is a big air pump, so if you want more power you have to put more through the pump. That's why turbos and superchargers exist, they compress air and put a lot more into an engine. If you are putting in lots of air on the front end, then you need to evacuate it fully on the back end as efficiently as possible. That means a low restriction exhaust, as free-flowing as possible.
Once catalytic converters came into use they became the restrictive point in the exhaust. You can open up the header all you want but that air is still going to be stopped up and slowed by the cats, so if you want power - then you have to put lo-restriction cats on the car, which are typically called 200 cell cats. Do that and with a free flowing exhaust (all three mufflers on a 991) you are doing pretty well on the backside of the engine. The 991 factory headers are pretty nice already (I've had mine off the car), they're not like a 4 into 1 dump off an old 327 Chevy small block. But those cats also restrict a lot of noise, so when you do 200 cell unit, be prepared for window-rattling sound that you can hear for blocks.
Now that you have headers, 200 cell cats and aftermarket mufflers, what are you going to do on the front end to put more air in the car? Change the air filters? That's not nearly enough. Then you will need to re-map the car, and I'm not sure who has the talent to do that on a current 991. The DME's are so locked down now, the days of chip swaps and re-flash are long gone. The manufacturer's have that coded up now so they release new software in new models for more HP, especially on turbo units. They're not letting any tuner go in there and get access with a laptop. Porsches new 991.2 with the dual turbos will be nearly impossible to crack open for more boost, but when Porsche wants to add 50 hp they can do it just by adding new code to change the boost - that's all being built into the new engine. Right now it exists in the Macan. S vs Turbo - they are both turbo V6 engines, once just had more code tweak.
Bottom line - if you want noise, then mod away. The only performance gains you will likely get in the back end alone is reduced weight, but the factory exhaust is fairly light already. I run a Tubi Exhaust on my 991S (stock cats and headers) and it was few pounds lighter but not as much as I expected. Power gain? None that I know of, but it has good tone
I should imagine that the next X51 will be (mostly) s/w, which means PAG will have done even more to make it harder to crack and effectively give
that upsell to the aftermarket guys...
10-06-2015, 06:02 PM
#10
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I want to tell you guys a little story, too. Back in 1996 I was very active on the BMW on-line community with my E36 M3, that was nearly 20 years ago. We were all modifying our cars for the track back then as well and me being stupid (along with everyone else) bought into the HP claims these aftermarket guys would make. My M3 was stock and I did some runs with a G-Meter in pure factory stock trim - enough to build a good spreadsheet over a few days time.
There was a tuner in Fairfax VA who was one of the 'go to' guys back in the day for BMW. Stupid me bought into the hype. Soon as I could afford to I put on their exhaust and get 22 HP, their cold air intake and get another 12 HP, then buy their chip (this was an OBD 1 car) and get another 30 hp. Add that up and that was 64 HP to my 240 HP Car....Whooo-hoooo!! And they had the dyno charts to back them up, right? I handed them a check for $ 2,700 or so and took the parts home and installed them. Car sounded great - beautiful intake noises and a great rumble out the back, it certainly felt faster.
Then I got my G-Meter out and did the runs again, over the same roads. The car had slowed down. Not by a little, but a lot. So while my perception was the car was faster, it was due to the noise. In the quarter mile, it lost 8 /10's a second from stock. I pulled off the mods and returned it to stock and the performance went back up to the original spreadsheet. I was furious for being duped by these claims and posted my specs all over the BMW community. I had the data sheets. Well, it didn't take long for this to seriously impact their business. Of course their response was that I didn't install it correctly (right). Its an EPROM Chip, a cat back pipe and an air cleaner - what's to screw up?
A year or so later the owner of this tuner company pulled me aside at a BMW tech event with BMWCCA and said I had really damaged his business. I said "Too bad, you made claims you can't back up". He then said that there were problems with the EPROM chip when I bought it and they had that all worked out now. If I would back off the negativity on his products he'd refund my my full purchase price for everything I had bought and already disposed up. In effect, he would pay me $ 2,700 to not trash his product. I told him to go pound sand, not interested.
And that was my lesson in bolt-on HP claims. To this day I don't believe any of them and take them with a grain of salt.
There was a tuner in Fairfax VA who was one of the 'go to' guys back in the day for BMW. Stupid me bought into the hype. Soon as I could afford to I put on their exhaust and get 22 HP, their cold air intake and get another 12 HP, then buy their chip (this was an OBD 1 car) and get another 30 hp. Add that up and that was 64 HP to my 240 HP Car....Whooo-hoooo!! And they had the dyno charts to back them up, right? I handed them a check for $ 2,700 or so and took the parts home and installed them. Car sounded great - beautiful intake noises and a great rumble out the back, it certainly felt faster.
Then I got my G-Meter out and did the runs again, over the same roads. The car had slowed down. Not by a little, but a lot. So while my perception was the car was faster, it was due to the noise. In the quarter mile, it lost 8 /10's a second from stock. I pulled off the mods and returned it to stock and the performance went back up to the original spreadsheet. I was furious for being duped by these claims and posted my specs all over the BMW community. I had the data sheets. Well, it didn't take long for this to seriously impact their business. Of course their response was that I didn't install it correctly (right). Its an EPROM Chip, a cat back pipe and an air cleaner - what's to screw up?
A year or so later the owner of this tuner company pulled me aside at a BMW tech event with BMWCCA and said I had really damaged his business. I said "Too bad, you made claims you can't back up". He then said that there were problems with the EPROM chip when I bought it and they had that all worked out now. If I would back off the negativity on his products he'd refund my my full purchase price for everything I had bought and already disposed up. In effect, he would pay me $ 2,700 to not trash his product. I told him to go pound sand, not interested.
And that was my lesson in bolt-on HP claims. To this day I don't believe any of them and take them with a grain of salt.
10-07-2015, 08:39 PM
#14
Advanced
has this midrange bump been track tested by anyone? I also am skeptical of overall net gains, but a mid range bump would be sweet if it doesnt have lean/heat or other issues associated with driving at 10/10s
10-07-2015, 08:40 PM
#15
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Thread Starter
I would imagine that without a CAT, you would have a good deal less heat.