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I would imagine that without a CAT, you would have a good deal less heat.
I dont wanna loose power down low or anything, but yes, indeed your point is very valid.
I also dont want to have CEL issues, and dont want to void my CPO by tuning the car.
Bolt on midrange power does sound good huh. I am not ready to be ginea pig on this, while I am game for such on many items, the header on my 991 needs to be fully sorted
Bolt on midrange power does sound good huh. I am not ready to be ginea pig on this, while I am game for such on many items, the header on my 991 needs to be fully sorted
I have the AWE switchpath xpipe paired with Fabspeed 200 cell headers. The only difference between running with and without the headers is the pitch. The volume stays almost the same. Maybe very slightly louder. But the pitch gets noticeably higher. Hope this information helps.
We have put our heart and soul into the development of all our exhaust systems, with goals in mind to unleash the true potential of performance and sound that are restricted from factory. We understand that real world performance gains are important, which is why when we release a new product line we do our best to dyno as many of our products, and combinations of our products, as possible given our time frame with the vehicle (often customer's vehicles so this may be limited).
Designing performance products and reviewing dyno results is truly a science in itself and quite complicated. Keeping this in mind, we use a Dynojet in a climate controlled facility that is connected to a weather station to ensure the results are as accurate as possible.
Our individual performance products do show fantastic performance gains alone, and the purpose of upgrading multiple areas of vehicle is for all the upgrades to work in harmony to provide the best possible overall performance gains throughout the power curve. A large misconception with dyno results of individual performance products is you can add all the gains together to come up with a total performance gain number. Unfortunately this is not the case, as different performance products show maximum gains in different areas of the power curve, and when combined they will overlap and shift the performance deltas into a cumulative gain. Therefore, if one product alone shows a maximum power gain of 20hp at 6000rpm, and another shows a maximum power gain of 15hp at 6000rpm, you cannot add both together to equal a total gain of 35hp, it may be close but not exact. This is even more apparent if the maximum gains of the products are at a different RPM such as 20hp at 5000rpm and 15hp at 6000rpm. However, either way combining the products will provide greater overall gains throughout the power curve, which is essential for maximum performance and the overall driving experience.
Please feel free to PM or call myself, or any of the performance specialists here to answer any questions you may have about Porsche Performance. Here at Fabspeed we pride ourselves on being as transparent as possible to ensure all our customers get the quality answers they need to make an educated decision and maximize their driving experience in one shot. We offer professional installation here in house, with our dyno standing by if you would like the opportunity to dyno before and after
For those interested in headers for their 991 Carrera, here is a dyno graph done at our facility featuring the base run on a stock C4, then the addition of our Sport Headers and Race Headers.
Last edited by John@Fabspeed; 10-10-2015 at 05:10 AM.
For those curious about ECU tuning availability, please know that the 991 and 981 generation ECUs have been cracked by several companies including COBB for who we are an authorized dealer. We currently offer tunes for the 991 GT3 and the 991 Turbo models. The rest of the 991 generation and the 981 generation will be coming soon, and we are very excited for the release of the next generation Carreras! The potential for performance is going to be superb
Drcollie is correct on comparing a combustion engine to a big air pump. I have modified and raced several different types of vehicles over the past 15 years or so. And one big thing about a combustion engine (big air pump) to understand using my 991 CS 3.8L motor that I have in my new car is the motor can be restricted of either air intake or the exhaust gasses leaving the motor or maybe even both.
And the best way to give it some more power is to give the big air pump more power is make the intake and exhaust volumes bigger.
Not to say any product is better than another but to say there can be some gains in a better flowing exhaust and certainly if combined with things that help better air intake (filters, air intake systems, intake plenums etc). I have also seen a handful of ECU tunes being offered for sale each advertising gains of about 20hp or so. I think that is a reasonable expectation for remapping the ECU of this high performance motor. What makes me hesitant is it seems all of these tunes would involve right now you sending your ECU to them so they can open it to remap it because the factory has everything in the ECU locked down so well. That is a huge warranty issue! As if anything goes wrong with your motor or transmission once they see the ECU was opened your warranty being voided issue will start instantly with the dealer and factory.
My last sports car I had that was a highly modified Mercedes C63 AMG with full boltons including headers and just about everything else available, and after all the boltons were done an ECU tune was done to add about 90hp. Such a big gain was possible because the C63 was detuned on its maps from the factory because Mercedes didn't want it making more power as some more expensive AMG models. The best part about the tune is it was done through the OBD II port and could be untuned at anytime, including dealership warranty or service trips. With all of the boltons and the tune car dynoed at almost 500hp to the wheels, from about high 300hp stock to the wheels.
So with some aftermarket parts even on a highly tuned vehicle gains can be made but as stated don't expect 100hp without opening the motor and maybe adding forced induction or nitrous.
Claims...claims...claims....if you add up all the claims in power by bolting on mods, you could make 100 more HP (claimed) for about $ 5K. Just basics here - very basic. An internal engine is a big air pump, so if you want more power you have to put more through the pump. That's why turbos and superchargers exist, they compress air and put a lot more into an engine. If you are putting in lots of air on the front end, then you need to evacuate it fully on the back end as efficiently as possible. That means a low restriction exhaust, as free-flowing as possible. Once catalytic converters came into use they became the restrictive point in the exhaust. You can open up the header all you want but that air is still going to be stopped up and slowed by the cats, so if you want power - then you have to put lo-restriction cats on the car, which are typically called 200 cell cats. Do that and with a free flowing exhaust (all three mufflers on a 991) you are doing pretty well on the backside of the engine. The 991 factory headers are pretty nice already (I've had mine off the car), they're not like a 4 into 1 dump off an old 327 Chevy small block. But those cats also restrict a lot of noise, so when you do 200 cell unit, be prepared for window-rattling sound that you can hear for blocks. Now that you have headers, 200 cell cats and aftermarket mufflers, what are you going to do on the front end to put more air in the car? Change the air filters? That's not nearly enough. Then you will need to re-map the car, and I'm not sure who has the talent to do that on a current 991. The DME's are so locked down now, the days of chip swaps and re-flash are long gone. The manufacturer's have that coded up now so they release new software in new models for more HP, especially on turbo units. They're not letting any tuner go in there and get access with a laptop. Porsches new 991.2 with the dual turbos will be nearly impossible to crack open for more boost, but when Porsche wants to add 50 hp they can do it just by adding new code to change the boost - that's all being built into the new engine. Right now it exists in the Macan. S vs Turbo - they are both turbo V6 engines, once just had more code tweak. Bottom line - if you want noise, then mod away. The only performance gains you will likely get in the back end alone is reduced weight, but the factory exhaust is fairly light already. I run a Tubi Exhaust on my 991S (stock cats and headers) and it was few pounds lighter but not as much as I expected. Power gain? None that I know of, but it has good tone
Drcollie is correct on comparing a combustion engine to a big air pump. I have modified and raced several different types of vehicles over the past 15 years or so. And one big thing about a combustion engine (big air pump) to understand using my 991 CS 3.8L motor that I have in my new car is the motor can be restricted of either air intake or the exhaust gasses leaving the motor or maybe even both.
And the best way to give it some more power is to give the big air pump more power is make the intake and exhaust volumes bigger.
Not to say any product is better than another but to say there can be some gains in a better flowing exhaust and certainly if combined with things that help better air intake (filters, air intake systems, intake plenums etc). I have also seen a handful of ECU tunes being offered for sale each advertising gains of about 20hp or so. I think that is a reasonable expectation for remapping the ECU of this high performance motor. What makes me hesitant is it seems all of these tunes would involve right now you sending your ECU to them so they can open it to remap it because the factory has everything in the ECU locked down so well. That is a huge warranty issue! As if anything goes wrong with your motor or transmission once they see the ECU was opened your warranty being voided issue will start instantly with the dealer and factory.
My last sports car I had that was a highly modified Mercedes C63 AMG with full boltons including headers and just about everything else available, and after all the boltons were done an ECU tune was done to add about 90hp. Such a big gain was possible because the C63 was detuned on its maps from the factory because Mercedes didn't want it making more power as some more expensive AMG models. The best part about the tune is it was done through the OBD II port and could be untuned at anytime, including dealership warranty or service trips. With all of the boltons and the tune car dynoed at almost 500hp to the wheels, from about high 300hp stock to the wheels.
So with some aftermarket parts even on a highly tuned vehicle gains can be made but as stated don't expect 100hp without opening the motor and maybe adding forced induction or nitrous.
Hello Tom,
Thank you for your valuable insight. In addition to what you added, I wanted to let you know a bit more about the ECU and warranty issues. In the US, if you do modify your ECU, or install any other form of aftermarket products on your vehicle and you have a warranty failure, they cannot void your warranty unless they can directly link the modification as the cause of failure. This is clearly stated by the Magnusson Moss Act and reiterated by the FTC at SEMA I believe in 2011.
Also to note, if your ECU has been sent off to be flashed you can always send it back to be flashed back to stock. Once back in stock form it is near untraceable that it has ever been modified
I'm fully aware of the law however most dealers and even most manufacturers will refuse to cover the repair. Unless they are served with a lawsuit or contacted by a lawyer obviously costing time and money. My point in my post was if there is an issue with the motor or transmission and the tune on the ECU was done by opening the ECU it would be very hard to conceal this. Now a flash is a different story, please understand I am pro modification. I just choose to do tasteful modifications and ones that minimize the chance of a warranty fight. I've been speaking with Nick about an exhaust already from your company. He knows my car history and my love for modifications. My motto is you have to be prepared to pay if you play, basically be prepared to either pay for a repair that a mod caused or for a legal dispute to prove it didn't if you want to modify your car.
10-07-2015, 09:10 PM
