OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]
09-07-2015, 06:38 PM
#46
Rennlist Member
09-07-2015, 06:43 PM
#47
Useless impractical overpriced technology that has bastardized what Porsches were originally all about. Like watching the guys in Ferraris cruising up and down Rodeo Drive in first gear, the new Porsche has joined the club of infotainment driven car enthusiasts. Who needs 7 speeds when the car is almost undrivable in 4th...unless you are on a race track. Who needs adaptive suspension and rear wheel steering and .01% better gas mileage when most new owners will rarely drive their cars except on weekend trips to cars and coffee? The only reason to buy a new Porsche is because the stock market crashed and the world is coming to an end and you have 48 hours left to party.
09-07-2015, 06:57 PM
#49
Rennlist Member
Lol, I like how every 991.2 threads turn into a **** fest every time.
Just because majority of people who buy a $100k sports car care more about the prestige than actual performance, doesn't mean there still a few of us who is willing to beat on the car in its proper environment, the track. Rear wheel steering seems to a great thing to have, and doesn't suffer from the reliability and reduce in chassis "feel" issue that PDCC suffers on the Turbo and Turbo S model. Whether or not these gen 2 models are worth getting in comparison to a slightly used 991.1 C2S or the Turbo models, no one can make a good judgment on it after an extensive test drive. Honestly, I don't mind having a technical discussion on why the newer car sucks, this forum would do a lot bette without the few that tries to express personal opinions on all forced induction engine sucks in every opportunity they get. Some of the so called most "soul stirring" cars of all time are turbocharged, just FYI...
Judging exhaust sound from a promotional video is pretty useless, you need to hear one in person to really judge the "tonal quality" of the car. Sure, you gonna loose the inherent harsh raspiness of the NA flat 6 with a pair of turbos in the way, but I honestly was never a big fan of the tin can like cold start noise of the NA 911 anyway. There is always aftermarket options as well, if the stock setup is truly terrible like the 991 Turbo. What's another $3-5k when you already paying +100k.
Upgraded suspension and increase in rear tire width is more deal with the pretty significant increase in torque. I seriously doubt the increase in weight will be significant, comparing to equivalently options 991.1.
On the tuning side of things, it is really about how smart you are with "playing around the rules"... With things like the portable Cobb ECU flasher, you would be an idiot to drop the car off at the dealer without flashing the car back to stock, which only takes a few minutes to complete. But of course, if you start doing cat less downpipes, upgraded inter cooler, you can kiss your power train warranty bye bye unless you like uninstall everything every time you need to go to the dealer.
IMO, I am excited of what the aftermarket can do for this car in just a few years, the current options for standard 911 are all limited to overpriced exhaust systems and some intake pendulums that doesn't even do much, which is pretty lame in comparison in comparison to the Turbo models, let along to what is going on with the BMW community is doing with the new S55 engines in the M4.
Just because majority of people who buy a $100k sports car care more about the prestige than actual performance, doesn't mean there still a few of us who is willing to beat on the car in its proper environment, the track. Rear wheel steering seems to a great thing to have, and doesn't suffer from the reliability and reduce in chassis "feel" issue that PDCC suffers on the Turbo and Turbo S model. Whether or not these gen 2 models are worth getting in comparison to a slightly used 991.1 C2S or the Turbo models, no one can make a good judgment on it after an extensive test drive. Honestly, I don't mind having a technical discussion on why the newer car sucks, this forum would do a lot bette without the few that tries to express personal opinions on all forced induction engine sucks in every opportunity they get. Some of the so called most "soul stirring" cars of all time are turbocharged, just FYI...
Judging exhaust sound from a promotional video is pretty useless, you need to hear one in person to really judge the "tonal quality" of the car. Sure, you gonna loose the inherent harsh raspiness of the NA flat 6 with a pair of turbos in the way, but I honestly was never a big fan of the tin can like cold start noise of the NA 911 anyway. There is always aftermarket options as well, if the stock setup is truly terrible like the 991 Turbo. What's another $3-5k when you already paying +100k.
Upgraded suspension and increase in rear tire width is more deal with the pretty significant increase in torque. I seriously doubt the increase in weight will be significant, comparing to equivalently options 991.1.
On the tuning side of things, it is really about how smart you are with "playing around the rules"... With things like the portable Cobb ECU flasher, you would be an idiot to drop the car off at the dealer without flashing the car back to stock, which only takes a few minutes to complete. But of course, if you start doing cat less downpipes, upgraded inter cooler, you can kiss your power train warranty bye bye unless you like uninstall everything every time you need to go to the dealer.
IMO, I am excited of what the aftermarket can do for this car in just a few years, the current options for standard 911 are all limited to overpriced exhaust systems and some intake pendulums that doesn't even do much, which is pretty lame in comparison in comparison to the Turbo models, let along to what is going on with the BMW community is doing with the new S55 engines in the M4.
09-07-2015, 07:44 PM
#50
I'm confused by the exhaust....
Are the narrow single pipe outlets on Porsches home page the base Carrera or the S, or are they the PSE option? Anyone else figure this out? The configurator picture still show the outboard duals like the current for the C2S. I kind of like the narrow bigger pipes-almost a little Scud-like.
Jim
Jim
09-07-2015, 07:54 PM
#52
Thanks STG. Its kind of funny how things come around. It used to be that the single pipes were the emasculated look of the 'lesser' car. Now they will signify 'cool' again!
Jim
Jim
09-07-2015, 08:13 PM
#53
I have a prediction based on the configuration tool continuing to crash, just like it did with the 997.2 and 991 when they were released. 911 sales will spike.
Not just new ones (991.2s) but the remaining 991.1s and the older generations as well. In the end there's so much passion and choice out there. I think the "bubble" on some of the air-cooled cars (barring 993 and 964 turbos) come from the fact that there are people ready to spend 120k+ on the car they want.
Maybe that car is the one they wanted when they were 16. Maybe it's the one from this year, or perhaps next year's model. In my brief 10 year history of buying Porsche's I've observed the unequivocal Porsche law - if the new car is faster and handles better, empirically they'll have a winner. If some buyers revolt there are countless previously enjoyed Porsche's waiting as there's no such thing as a used Porsche, only new owners.
In the end the brand maintains its desirability, values are somewhat stable and the bar always, always move forward (as defined by faster and better handling).
Not just new ones (991.2s) but the remaining 991.1s and the older generations as well. In the end there's so much passion and choice out there. I think the "bubble" on some of the air-cooled cars (barring 993 and 964 turbos) come from the fact that there are people ready to spend 120k+ on the car they want.
Maybe that car is the one they wanted when they were 16. Maybe it's the one from this year, or perhaps next year's model. In my brief 10 year history of buying Porsche's I've observed the unequivocal Porsche law - if the new car is faster and handles better, empirically they'll have a winner. If some buyers revolt there are countless previously enjoyed Porsche's waiting as there's no such thing as a used Porsche, only new owners.
In the end the brand maintains its desirability, values are somewhat stable and the bar always, always move forward (as defined by faster and better handling).
09-07-2015, 08:14 PM
#54
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If PSE is now dual central pipes, I would imagine retrofitting a non-pse car will get a bit more expensive. New rear bumper (painted) in addition to the cost of the exhaust hardware\install.
09-07-2015, 08:14 PM
#55
Race Director
OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]
Originally Posted by 96redLT4
Thanks STG. Its kind of funny how things come around. It used to be that the single pipes were the emasculated look of the 'lesser' car. Now they will signify 'cool' again!
Jim
Jim
Not trying to be mr. negative, just trying to rationalize the science behind it.
09-07-2015, 08:17 PM
#56
Race Director
OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]
Originally Posted by tekniik
If PSE is now dual central pipes, I would imagine retrofitting a non-pse car will get a bit more expensive. New rear bumper (painted) in addition to the cost of the exhaust hardware\install.
09-07-2015, 08:50 PM
#58
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09-07-2015, 08:52 PM
#59
09-07-2015, 09:00 PM
#60
Useless impractical overpriced technology that has bastardized what Porsches were originally all about. Like watching the guys in Ferraris cruising up and down Rodeo Drive in first gear, the new Porsche has joined the club of infotainment driven car enthusiasts. Who needs 7 speeds when the car is almost undrivable in 4th...unless you are on a race track. Who needs adaptive suspension and rear wheel steering and .01% better gas mileage when most new owners will rarely drive their cars except on weekend trips to cars and coffee? The only reason to buy a new Porsche is because the stock market crashed and the world is coming to an end and you have 48 hours left to party.
