h2009

Please note I've posted the same on another forum but I would like more input from others. Thanks

This is my story of my first Porsche…. But before I go into the details, I just want to make it clear that the dealership have been helpful trying to deal with these issues (mostly). Although a few people within the dealership have said its a sports car, so it will rattle!
Also I haven't be able to take pictures of all my issues as the camera can't pickup the marks or problems happened before I've had time to get my camera on.

So after much debating on what car I should get I decided on a GTS. Order went into the dealership in December and I received my car 14 March 2015.

Options are 'my thing’ so I ordered the car fully loaded (only thing missing is the aero kit).

14 March 2015
Went to the dealership to collect it and hopefully have a great first drive….After going through the new owner part of the process, I noticed a few imperfections in the car’s interior and body. The car was quickly polished up and everything I could see under the showroom lights was addressed.
The only thing that annoyed me when spending £135k+ on a car is that it came with 2/5 of a fuel in the tank - I mean, really come on!

Starting the car for the first time with 9 miles on the clock inside the dealership “Low Battery” but the car started nicely and I took it out for a spin. Only 30 seconds into my first drive after signing the completion documents hit with another error “ACC/PAS unavailable Service Required”. Returned back into the dealership and they hooked it upto the computer. The engineer showed me the screen and it was a “just a low battery issue, driving the car would be fine and you won’t have any issue once the battery is charged.” So I was happy considering I was about to drive half way up the country to have PaintShield placed on my car (full wrap). So I make my way home - its now 5.30pm and rush hour is killing me, so no chance to drive the car but thats ok because I’ve got my long drive tomorrow….



15 March 2015
I start my car up 3.30am after getting it from the dealership the next morning same faults on my system. So I think ok, just needs more charging.
I get on the open motorway (no cars what so ever given the time) and have some fun driving the car. Every few minutes getting the ACC/PAS unavailable Service Required message. After 100 miles I pull off turn the car on/off thinking the car battery must be fully charged and set my ACC up at 80mph - cruising along for a few miles - BAM! The car has just done a slam dunk emergency stop to about 10mph and then blasts up through the gears back to 80mph. Seconds later ACC/PAS unavailable Service Required. Thank god no one was around me (in front or behide). The motor section I was on at the time was 100% straight.

Anyway this issue occurs non-stop my whole drive. I switch off the ACC and control the speed manually. Although I’m still getting the ACC/PAS unavailable Service Required messages popup. I was thinking to myself: “why am I only getting a message? Surely if there is a problem with the ACC/PAS there should be some audible warning?!” Nothing.

- VIDEO of 'slow example'

Whilst all this is going on, I’m playing my music (fairly loud) Burmester System (upgraded and at a large expense) all set to default settings and on certain songs/timings I’m getting really bad rattling sounds! Any road surface and driving/standing still. Sounds like there is loose metal in my doors/roof/switches.
I get so fed up with the rattles i turn the sound system off, Sport Exhausts system on - Great I can listen to my engine…..
Errm no - I hear this metal rattling sound from my engine - which sounds like the heat shield hitting something in the engine bay. Also I notice a wind whilst noise from my driver side door and a bunch of rattles from the rear quarters.
What more can possibly go wrong!

I arrived at 6.30am and I email the dealership and call them to alert them to the issues and tell them the car isn’t really safe with the ACC.

Anyway after a 4 hour drive up to Peterborough to get my car wrapped, they start to wash and prep the car. I get called in….
They show me under the front spoiler that there are scratches on it - now I know I haven’t driven over anything so this must have happened in the dealership.
I call the dealership up and tell him this right away and send photos. As I’m on the phone the Paintshields guys notice major imperfections with my bonnet - lots of dust under the paint work and a long 100% straight line that looks like lots of tiny scratches that can’t be polished out. At this point I said my dealership sales guy, what do I do. I’ve managed to get the car up without any stone chips only to find these imperfections. Long story short, I got the car wrapped and the dealership said they would talk to me when I come back in for the other faults.







The wrap on continues and we find may more scratches more so importantly on the plastic part of the glass sunroof, so no wrapping at this point as its not going to be chipped by stones.
The car is fully wrapped over the weekend.

I also notice that my interior has stained blue from my 2 year old jeans! Also my girlfriends shoes which are red has dyed the carpets on the centre tunnel. Not only that but the metal is staining a darker colour when in contact natural hand oils/water - WTF?

16 March 2015
Monday morning arrives and I’m straight back into the dealership. They’ve got the car for 1 week to try to fix these issues. I come back to find that the ACC shielding has been removed nothing mentioned to me about that. They replaced the steering wheel and polished out the black plastic on the sunroof.

21 March 2015
All the other issues they say can’t be heard or seen. So I demo them and left it with them again for a few days.

27 March 2015 to 30 March 2015
I have my car back and use again. Same issues with the ACC, rattles, wind noise etc. I drop my car off to the dealership after phoning them on the weekend alerting them again to these issues already discussed

31 March 2015
I making a full written statement to them listing all the issues with the car. Which they accept but being that its Easter weekend the car goes to them on 7 April 2015.

7 April 2015
Car dropped off to the dealership and I’m giving 991 C2 (bog standard spec - boring car).

16 April 2015
I get a call saying the issues have been resolved and the car is ready for you to collect.
I turn up at the dealership and go to inspect it. Right way some of the issues with the staining interiors have not been done.
Anyway I go for a test drive and find the rattles are all still in the car and nothing has changed. The only thing that appears to be fixed is the ACC but I can’t be sure without a long test drive.

Speaking with sales manager I ask for my car to be replaced at this point which they refuse as they need to be given a chance to fix it. So instead I allow them this but as compensation we’ve agreed on a number of points (extended warranty and painting of the damaged areas of paintwork).

29 April 2015
No update from the dealership so I go to seem them. They believed they resolved all the issue bar the wind whistle. Later on I sent an email to them asking for a refund if the car isn’t fully repaired by 5 May 2015.

30 April 2015
I received a call saying good news the we’ve found the issue with the wind noise and its was the wing mirror with the paintshield. I asked if they were 100% sure. After confirming to me they replaced the unit from another car and said the noise was a lot better. I at that point said “how is that possible when the issue was there before the paintshield was applied to the car?”.
So to cut to the chase, they aren’t sure this is the issue and still have the car. I also call up Paintshield and ask if they’ve ever had this issue with any other Porsche or any other GTS they’ve covered. You can guess the answer is no.
Later on, I receive a call saying the car is ready to collection tomorrow…

1 May 2015
I go to the dealership to test the car, and there is a noticeable change in quality that is generally much better than before.
Going out with the techs driving it I notice that the wind whilst has improved but still is on going on the driver side. The sound system rattles are still there on the same songs. The tech did say he can't hear anything in terms of the outstanding issues.
As for the ACC, I did see it behave unexpectedly for a short time (seconds) during and I don’t believe this issue is resolved.

I jumped into another car and tested the same songs on another car fitted with BMS speakers and I don't hear the same issues with rattles. I've got a BOSE system in my loan car and that is perfect on these issues.

In summary, I have requested a refund on my car but still awaiting the news on whether they will honour this. Also if they issue a refund I would expect to refunded the £4k spent on the Paintshield and the tracker subscription.

The next issue more importantly for all those with cruise control:

ACC Cruise Control:
When my system had these errors there was no audible warning given out therefore if I wasn't expecting the system to fail and getting ready to override it then I would have crashed. The only warning I got was on the display but not a single sound which is what you need when you are driving! Can everyone with ACC check their cars to see if they give an audible alert in a error event (i.e. bag caught over the camera when using it). If not Porsche need to do an update to fix this ASAP across every car.

Normal Cruise Control:
I've noticed a major issue with every loan car I've driven! Whilst its not serious, it does show that QC is a thing of the past and there are bugs in the software.
Have a look at these videos - 2 videos showing cruise control can't be set on 30mph or 50 mph. Odd yes? And just to confirm that is from 2 different cars both 15' plates.

So that is my first ever Porsche experience. Great isn’t it!

My questions to you guys now:

1) For those with ACC fitted if your system results in an error (if it ever does?) do you get a audible warning?
2) If you were in my shoes would you demand a new car under consumer protection laws now?
3) Does anyone know where I would legally stand assuming they believe the car is 'fixed' despite the fact I can still hear/see issues?
4) Anyone with a GTS 4wd had any issues like this?








General update:

The dealer principle has been informed the whole process since the last visit/current period its in. Also Porsche GB are aware of the issues and at the moment not doing anything.

The dealer principle spoke with me today and he believe after "personally testing" it that the car perfect now. He actually drove it on Thursday the day before I went to test it. In all honestly I think they believe I'm picking holes in the car to get my money back - despite having the deposit with them for over a year! They knew exactly the process I went through buying and spec'ing my car. Now I'm fed up with the issues and going back and forth to the dealership trying to prove time and time again the issues.
Simply put, that not my job although I'm bloody good at fault finding!

Its worth noting that, when the car was handed to the dealership there was 903 miles on it, now there is 1300+

The dealership have offered a number perks when the was handed to them back in April. But at that point I was not expecting it to take 1 month to fix!
The perks include:
2 year extended warranty
Paint corrections at any point in the future for the bump and bonnet once the paintshield has been removed
Leather treatment to help prevent staining (how good this will be I don't know!)

I'm going to the dealership tomorrow to do another road test and try and prove to them there is still wind noise from the driver door seals. The same sound can be produced on any other car by simply pushing the window outwards when its nearly closed. Try this on your car and listen to what its like.
As mentioned above this noise is mostly fixed but its not silent like the passenger side.

I would really like to hear if anyone can shed some legal light on this matter for me.

Archimedes

Lemon laws are unique to the State in which you reside/purchased. While they tend to be somewhat similar across the country, the devil's in the details and you should research what they are in your State. Document everything and leave the car in the dealer's possession if you are not satisfied that it's been repaired, as then the 'days out of service' clock keeps ticking, which is one of the Lemon Law thresholds you need to meet in order to be eligible for a buyback.

I'm about to spend $1,500 on paint correction on the black Cayman S I bought in February due to problems with the finish from it sitting on the dealer's lot for a year. I should have checked it in florescent lighting before I bought it (or not let my wife talk me into another black car....)

ggreg911

Welcome to Porsche!

In my first 6 months of ownership of a 2014 C2S, I had sunroof panel, sunroof motor, and entire engine replaced. Porsche cut me a check for 10k US after the engine was replaced (at 5800 miles).

My car is currently in the shop for a persistent dash rattle I've dealt with for almost a year!

If you want to keep car, push for compensation. I asked for 10k and there was no resistance by Porsche.

Good luck.

GSIRM3

I don't think he is in the US, so who knows what his lemon laws are.

Archimedes

Ah, my mistake. Should have noticed the plate in the picture.

h2009

Hi Guys, afraid I'm not in the US.
Are laws are different and not clear to be honest I'll have to see what happens but if need will seek legal advice. But at the moment just looking for input from everyone.

eg991

Best input I can offer is that you should seek some legal advice. Sorry to hear about the awful experience you've been having; hope this works out for you.

shaytun

I agree I don't know what the lemon laws are abroad. But as a general rule, keep complaining and don't let up. Sorry you're going through this.

wreck

It's time Porsche gets a kick in the butt. The dealers think there **** doesn't stink,Porsche has that 1930's German attitude.I had problems with mine,though dealer related,not Porsche. They did finally step in but they knew it would not have ended well for them. They need to understand that someone that can write a check for six figures can also write a check for the an attorney.
I had a similar problem with a BMW back in 2007 I had a big magnetic lemon put on the side of my car and drove around like that for a few days, until the dealer called me and begged me to remove it. They settled!

shaytun

By the way, aren't there multiple threads about that tan leather taking up color, especially from jeans?

Porsche_nuts

^^ This^^. You should do a search on Nick Murray to get an idea of what he had to go through to get satisfaction. Hopefully, you won't have to go though what he went through and fingers crossed that everything works out for you.

ggreg911

My experience with Porsche was the polar opposite of Nick's. Once Porsche NA was involved i had a satisfactory resolution in two weeks. They gave me option of replacing the vehicle. I offered to accept 10k and keep the car. They had a check to me in two weeks.

CamsPorsche

Ouch! Sorry to hear of your story...

Odd things happen with Porsche now. My car has been perfect so far except for a bent drivers side windsheild wiper arm that they replaced in 20 mins.

Push Porsche GB for compensation or a new car. Also seek out your local better business council or seek a lawyer

Larry Cable

I hate to say it (isnt 20-20 hindsight great) I would not have paint shielded the car once the paint issues were found (hopefully before they started).

You might want to contact the Consumer Protection Agency to discuss your options/rights.

It sounds as though the dealership are 'trying'; I'd be very clear about what your 'acceptance criteria' are as well as any 'compensation' (extended warranty etc) put this in writing to the dealer principal
and copy PCGB as well.

good luck keep us posted.

docjohnM

also, try a different dealership. There are some that are amazing at "rattle hunts". The individual quality of the technicians is the key. If a dealer loses their "top tech", it may take literally years to find a replacement. In that time, you will deal with a trainee working on your vehicle.