Larry Cable

Dont forget that the company needs to maintain a power differential across the entire model lineup, including the "turbo" models *and* and .2 GT3
which they claim remains N.A ... which does not leave a lot of space at
475-500bhp for a 3.8-4.0L displacement.

So I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict the the new engines will in fact pretty much retain the max bhp figures of the current models, perhaps with a *small* increment not greater than 15 bhp.

NoGaBiker

Larry, that's exactly been my thinking as well; GT3 remains saddled by the realistic limits of NA power out of the 4.0 liter displacement of the current block. I'm sure there's a little more left in there (after all, Preuninger managed to squeeze that same 500hp out of the 4.0 Mezger engine in 2012, and it lacked direct injection), but not the sort of increases you could see by turning up the wick on a turbo.

So while getting power increases with the standard Carrera turbos will be easy, the GT3 will bottleneck that process and force things to stay pretty darn close to where they are till Motorsports figures out what to do with the GT cars.

BlackBeauty

I think that's exactly right with the exception of torque jumping up, so the Carrera S will probably be 430/400 - then cue the marketing machine, engineers and Brooks Brothers models signing it's praises.

I know there's been a lot said about RPM limits, I think at the end of the day this will also increase migration to PDK.

Whether I like it or not, these will always be the best cars you can buy and as we scream about what we do and don't want them to do, they try to be somewhat responsive - a la GTS, GT4, etc.

Key Left

991.1 was a major step forward, 90% new or revised parts, overall. 991.2 seems like a smaller step, engines and compatible body work, only.

The 918 is a NA hybrid. GT3 will remain NA, through MY 2017.

Hypothesis. 991.2 is a Carerra ( less expensive) bridge -gap solution car (for fleet mileage/emissions standards) until a more modestly priced 918 type NA hybrid power unit can be fitted to a totally reconfigured 911, in the future. The GT3 waits in current NA guise until then ( Perhaps a foreshadowing of this hypothesis is the 918 style steering wheel in the 991.2?)

Larry Cable

Well if you look at what Manthey and Sharkwerks have done with 4.1 and 4.2L blocks and the race car Mezgers there is definitely some bhp to be extracted but
honestly I dont see how they are going to get much more out of either *and*
if I were a 4.0L RS or 991 GT3RS owner I'd be a bit unhappy if a future model
out bhp'ed me ... although I know bugger all about engine design so who knows!

So I'm guessing these new Turbo engines in the Carrera and the S will have small increments over their previous generation N.A counterparts, but they will be up
on torque curve and fuel efficiency ...

bottom line, if you like N.A engines, this is it, and probably also the manual tranny too...

Larry Cable

+1 on torque *and* rpm limits, as well as PDK ... with the transmission and engine all controlled as a single integrated solution there are more opportunities for software based optimizations to improve performance... faster shifts etc

Key Left

Yeah. The PDK was a smart ploy by Porsche to control us. They got improved fleet stats at our expense ,$4K more, so to speak. Now they will put the turbo handcuffs on us to limit revs and emissions. The 991.1 MT was the last true 911, that you control yourself. Purists are a dying breed.
But who knows maybe a NA hybrid could at least rev like the old days, unfortunately a robot will most likely shift it.

Matt-R20

New Macan turbo motors are equal torque to HP, so suspect you are close, my bet is 400/400 w gts at 450hp.

400+ ft/lbs in an S/GTS is going to change a bunch of opinions about this change.

neurotic

nahhhhh....I'll stick to my NA engine

jimbo1111

I think 400 for the base and 450 for the S. HP numbers will have to improve over the current NA model just to compensate for the over all performance with the added weight.

NoGaBiker

Jimbo, anything is possible, but that would sure be out of line with previous 99X.2 updates over 99X.1. 50hp more? Seems like a real break with tradition.

Car...........................HP.........TQ
996.1 (3.4)..............296.........258
996.2 (3.6)..............325.........273
997.1 (3.6)..............325.........273
997.1S (3.8)............355.........295
997.2 (3.6)..............345.........288
997.2S (3.8)............385.........310
991.1 (3.4)..............350.........287
991.1S (3.8)............400.........325

Deltas between S models after a refresh jumped 30hp in 2009, and then only 15hp in the total model makeover.

jimbo1111

You are certainly correct here but! We aren't talking N/A any longer. The new turbo will be strapped with extra baggage at the tune of 400 to 450lbs. over the current model. They will have to add a significant amount of HP just for the offset in weight. After that 7% to 8% additional performance over the current gens power and walla!

Larry Cable

I think those numbers are a bit high?

jimbo1111

Turbo s is currently 3538lbs. I think I'm about right.

Larry Cable

dont forget that's AWD *and* wider chassis, delta between 4S and turbo is closer to 230lbs.