GTS, wow, over a gt3???
01-25-2015, 10:43 PM
#17
Banned
01-25-2015, 10:49 PM
#18
Banned
I completely agree. Except I'm a MT fan.
It's in the revs. The two engines have the same torque. The added HP is made with revs. . I'm sure the two engines aren't that different aside from being able to rev higher with the use of some internals and higher limits. I would like to know what they are. I have heard the rods are titanium in the gt3. If you have some info. It would be appreciated.
It's in the revs. The two engines have the same torque. The added HP is made with revs. . I'm sure the two engines aren't that different aside from being able to rev higher with the use of some internals and higher limits. I would like to know what they are. I have heard the rods are titanium in the gt3. If you have some info. It would be appreciated.
01-25-2015, 11:05 PM
#19
Settle down
If you think anything more then a few seconds on most tracks would separate this gts vs a gt3 in the hands of anyone less then a very experienced driver your flat out wrong. How was I misled? Dealer specd out a none gt3 car to aesthetically look near identical to a gt3 from the aero set up,suspension/ride height, Wheels in the finish they did (black) and did it to a gts which has the stronger motor hp wise then let's say a none gts car etc. Plus a wide body which looked slick IMO. I think they did a nice job in building another variant of a 991 in a way. The looks and style (if someone chooses to like the way a gt3 looks) but having back seats, likely less stiff ride and likely more luxury like features found on most gt3 cars (yet still quite capable) and delivered it in this package. In no way was I told this car was better or faster or other then a gt3 just that it may deliver close to what a gt3 is (looks, stance, hp, aero package, similar hp, etc) but not being a gt3 and shining in some other areas as a possible better daily driver for some. I have yet to see a gts in a 991 or a 997 to anywhere resemble a gt3....here I think they came close in many aspects. I have seen some bad builds and this was not one of them.
Style over substance? Your saying the upgraded suspension and Lowered right height on this gts would not help it's performance on a track? Are you suggesting Porsche would design this aero package and it would add NO value in wind tunnel testing and aero performance? Are you suggesting using a gts car with the added hp over a none gts 991 would not be the right choice In getting closer to a gt3 like car? I appreciate gt3 cars but come on your reply makes it sound like this car as equipped is a pinto vs a gt3 but in reality not all that far off in the hands of most owners that are not dedicated-experienced track drivers. Different and lacking in some areas? Of course ,,,, it's not a gt3. Just IMO a very very nice gts that does get the owner a large step closer to resembling a gt3 in a few key areas.
Hey these guys order and build cars all the time. (Porsche sales people) Here I think they put one on the show room floor that was unique and no doubt caught my eye.
By no means stating this gts is in anyway better or faster or other then a gt3 but for a none gt3 car getting closer....and for daily use may surpass a gt3 in some areas. For the right buyer this blend may work.
Style over substance? Your saying the upgraded suspension and Lowered right height on this gts would not help it's performance on a track? Are you suggesting Porsche would design this aero package and it would add NO value in wind tunnel testing and aero performance? Are you suggesting using a gts car with the added hp over a none gts 991 would not be the right choice In getting closer to a gt3 like car? I appreciate gt3 cars but come on your reply makes it sound like this car as equipped is a pinto vs a gt3 but in reality not all that far off in the hands of most owners that are not dedicated-experienced track drivers. Different and lacking in some areas? Of course ,,,, it's not a gt3. Just IMO a very very nice gts that does get the owner a large step closer to resembling a gt3 in a few key areas.
Hey these guys order and build cars all the time. (Porsche sales people) Here I think they put one on the show room floor that was unique and no doubt caught my eye.
By no means stating this gts is in anyway better or faster or other then a gt3 but for a none gt3 car getting closer....and for daily use may surpass a gt3 in some areas. For the right buyer this blend may work.
So people really do get sucked into the hype. Sorry Mick but you have been misled (and by Porsche advertising no less) to believe you can approach a GT3 with just a few cosmetic bits here and there. Its a disgrace for Porsche to promote this, so let's not encourage them, okay?
Its more than marketing, by the way. Lots of people already make cars with style posing as substance. Everyone does it to some extent, Porsche a lot less than most. In terms of style you seem to be taken in. But what about substance?
Does this GTS have the same engine? No. PDK-S? No. Rear axle steering? No. Suspension? No. Aerodynamics? No.
None of these, not even any single one taken alone, is insignificant. When Elephant Racing published a detailed report on the GT3 suspension they concluded its closer to a Cup car (Porsches racing version 991) than a Carrera S. PDK-S has been engineered not only to shift faster with more features but also to feel much more solidly connected. It just goes on and on like this, right down the line.
Granted lots of guys love the look of "the look". And that's fine. At least this way its being done with Porsche panache, not abominably riced out with aftermarket sharkwerst or whatever. So it does look better. But in terms of substance, well quite honestly, there is none.
Its more than marketing, by the way. Lots of people already make cars with style posing as substance. Everyone does it to some extent, Porsche a lot less than most. In terms of style you seem to be taken in. But what about substance?
Does this GTS have the same engine? No. PDK-S? No. Rear axle steering? No. Suspension? No. Aerodynamics? No.
None of these, not even any single one taken alone, is insignificant. When Elephant Racing published a detailed report on the GT3 suspension they concluded its closer to a Cup car (Porsches racing version 991) than a Carrera S. PDK-S has been engineered not only to shift faster with more features but also to feel much more solidly connected. It just goes on and on like this, right down the line.
Granted lots of guys love the look of "the look". And that's fine. At least this way its being done with Porsche panache, not abominably riced out with aftermarket sharkwerst or whatever. So it does look better. But in terms of substance, well quite honestly, there is none.
Last edited by mickfluff; 01-25-2015 at 11:41 PM.
01-26-2015, 12:02 AM
#21
Actually the GT3 is not just "somewhat streetable" it is eminently streetable. It is in fact a street car. More high performance than a Carrera, sure, but still a street car. Porsche makes a car that is not pretty much, but exactly, a factory race car. Its called the Cup car. The GT3 "fills the gap" between the Carrera S and the Cup. But understand I mean "fills the gap" in the literal performance sense, not the marketing fantasy sense they use when talking about the GTS.
As you rightly pointed out the Turbo would also fit in there. But where the Turbo delivers in terms of speed, its not at all in the same performance class as a GT3 or Cup in terms of responsiveness. Most people though tend to at some level equate the comfort of a Turbo with street use and the aggressive roughness of the Cup car or GT3 with the track. But its a wide range, Porsche has blurred the points into overlapping bands, and every driver has his own idea of what's what anyway. Which accounts for a lot of the "some can't grasp the concept" stuff. It may not be so much that they can't grasp it, as the concept they have a firm grasp on just happens to be different.
As you rightly pointed out the Turbo would also fit in there. But where the Turbo delivers in terms of speed, its not at all in the same performance class as a GT3 or Cup in terms of responsiveness. Most people though tend to at some level equate the comfort of a Turbo with street use and the aggressive roughness of the Cup car or GT3 with the track. But its a wide range, Porsche has blurred the points into overlapping bands, and every driver has his own idea of what's what anyway. Which accounts for a lot of the "some can't grasp the concept" stuff. It may not be so much that they can't grasp it, as the concept they have a firm grasp on just happens to be different.
The key sentiment here is that not all people adhere to or have the same definition for what a perfect daily driver should be. I have spent a bit of time in a 991 GT3 and it is a truly exciting car with huge capabilities. I and anyone else for that matter could drive it on the street, but I still would not want one as a daily driver. With the mentioned drawbacks and lean options list it simply crosses the line as not being very "streetable" to me,.....too focused on track performance vs. everyday enjoyment.
If every 911 buyer thought the GT3 was the best "street" 911 you would simply see many more on the road today, but you don't. You will however see GTSs, C4S, Targas & Turbos, many of which will have a price tag equal to or greater compared to a GT3 in relative abundance. For good reason, they simply represent a more streetable car to the vast majority of buyers. Where do you see the GT3s?, mostly at the track where their true capabilities can be exploited. Same reason you won't see many Z/28s on the street,....too narrow a focus for the majority of buyers, no matter how good it is on a racetrack.
01-26-2015, 12:38 AM
#23
The key sentiment here is that not all people adhere to or have the same definition for what a perfect daily driver should be. I have spent a bit of time in a 991 GT3 and it is a truly exciting car with huge capabilities. I and anyone else for that matter could drive it on the street, but I still would not want one as a daily driver. With the mentioned drawbacks and lean options list it simply crosses the line as not being very "streetable" to me,.....too focused on track performance vs. everyday enjoyment.
If every 911 buyer thought the GT3 was the best "street" 911 you would simply see many more on the road today, but you don't. You will however see GTSs, C4S, Targas & Turbos, many of which will have a price tag equal to or greater compared to a GT3 in relative abundance. For good reason, they simply represent a more streetable car to the vast majority of buyers. Where do you see the GT3s?, mostly at the track where their true capabilities can be exploited. Same reason you won't see many Z/28s on the street,....too narrow a focus for the majority of buyers, no matter how good it is on a racetrack.
If every 911 buyer thought the GT3 was the best "street" 911 you would simply see many more on the road today, but you don't. You will however see GTSs, C4S, Targas & Turbos, many of which will have a price tag equal to or greater compared to a GT3 in relative abundance. For good reason, they simply represent a more streetable car to the vast majority of buyers. Where do you see the GT3s?, mostly at the track where their true capabilities can be exploited. Same reason you won't see many Z/28s on the street,....too narrow a focus for the majority of buyers, no matter how good it is on a racetrack.
01-26-2015, 12:38 AM
#24
Rennlist Member
We actually are living in a wonderful Porsche 911 era.
To have so many choices, options etc, it's a great time to be a 911 lover.
Embrace them all I say because as we all know now we may not have a naturally aspirated option in the near future.
Kum ba ya I say.
Did you hear about the possum found in the trunk of the race car this morning at the 24 Daytona?
http://usat.ly/1BpMCaA
To have so many choices, options etc, it's a great time to be a 911 lover.
Embrace them all I say because as we all know now we may not have a naturally aspirated option in the near future.
Kum ba ya I say.
Did you hear about the possum found in the trunk of the race car this morning at the 24 Daytona?
http://usat.ly/1BpMCaA
01-26-2015, 01:04 AM
#25
Rennlist Member
You read this thread and you see why people say this Porsche board is full of rich, grumpy old men with overblown egos and way too much time on their hands...
01-26-2015, 05:05 AM
#28
Instructor
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01-26-2015, 10:05 AM
#29
If you like the styling and have the money! Buy the gt3!
991gt3 is a street car that you can take to the track! RS is a track car that you can drive on the street!
Just have a quick look in the 991gt3 forum, 90% of the threads is about leather, stitching, wheel color!!!
Good luck with your new car!
991gt3 is a street car that you can take to the track! RS is a track car that you can drive on the street!
Just have a quick look in the 991gt3 forum, 90% of the threads is about leather, stitching, wheel color!!!
Good luck with your new car!
01-26-2015, 10:34 AM
#30
I completely agree. Except I'm a MT fan.
It's in the revs. The two engines have the same torque. The added HP is made with revs. . I'm sure the two engines aren't that different aside from being able to rev higher with the use of some internals and higher limits. I would like to know what they are. I have heard the rods are titanium in the gt3. If you have some info. It would be appreciated.
It's in the revs. The two engines have the same torque. The added HP is made with revs. . I'm sure the two engines aren't that different aside from being able to rev higher with the use of some internals and higher limits. I would like to know what they are. I have heard the rods are titanium in the gt3. If you have some info. It would be appreciated.
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/...fferences.html