So is GTS looking to be possibly the last purist 911?
12-19-2014, 02:55 PM
#46
Race Director
Your response reminds me: I believe Chris Harris, in his 991 GT3 review, said that for every purist who refused to buy a 991 GT3 because it lacked manual, there would be five new buyers because of what the GT3 has become (or something to this effect). PDK-S is very good and a bit friendlier for folks who want a GT3 as a daily driver, so I'm sure this move on Porsche's part made many potential buyers happy.
You can tell reading posts from new GT3 owners that it seems like a broader range of buyer.
The appeal is definitely reaching a wider audience and reflecting sales. This will also translate into a decent second hand market as well I believe. There seems to be quite a few guys that get board with cars every 6 months or so.
A lot of guys coming over from other brands too that tend to go back and forth as well.
12-19-2014, 02:59 PM
#47
Race Director
There's a few guys showing they have a decent perspective on things, but a lot more would do well to comb through some old back issues of R&T, etc. Do that and I guarantee you'll be shocked to see almost the exact same things being said about the 911 twenty, thirty years ago. Seriously. The sport/GT question is as old as the car itself! As for the 'purist' question, whatever that means. There's definitely those who've made a fetish, or religion if you prefer, of the clutch pedal. For them I guess as long as there's a clutch they will cling to the 'purist' pose. For everyone else its been a long, slow slog. If 'purist' means driver only no corrective systems, well Porsche introduced ABS (and power steering) on the 964 so the last purist 911 was the Carrera. But hey, what about fuel injection? Surely 'purist' means carburetors? Or does someone want to defend DFI as being more 'purist' than Weber? I don't think so. So then the last 'purist' 911 was whatever year they made the last 911T. Which somebody can look up but off hand I'd say takes us back to the 60's. Last I looked, we're just shy of 2015. Awful late to be talking about the last 'purist' 911. But there you go….
The horse and carriage driver might see himself as the last purist too before these gas powered machines took over..
12-19-2014, 03:02 PM
#48
Rennlist Member
There is a strong probability that it could be the last NA & MT 911 though ... if that matters
12-19-2014, 03:08 PM
#49
Rennlist Member
1973 (early) "Ts" were the last. '73.5 T cars were the first with CIS.
12-19-2014, 03:14 PM
#51
Race Director
To the masses and future buyers coming aboard, it's a non issue unfortunately (look at the comments already from current owners). Oh well!
The market will choose the winners and losers in the long run.
12-19-2014, 04:46 PM
#53
Great point and reference.
You can tell reading posts from new GT3 owners that it seems like a broader range of buyer.
The appeal is definitely reaching a wider audience and reflecting sales. This will also translate into a decent second hand market as well I believe. There seems to be quite a few guys that get board with cars every 6 months or so.
A lot of guys coming over from other brands too that tend to go back and forth as well.
You can tell reading posts from new GT3 owners that it seems like a broader range of buyer.
The appeal is definitely reaching a wider audience and reflecting sales. This will also translate into a decent second hand market as well I believe. There seems to be quite a few guys that get board with cars every 6 months or so.
A lot of guys coming over from other brands too that tend to go back and forth as well.
12-19-2014, 04:52 PM
#54
Race Director
Porsche has already broadened the brand with the panemera, Cayenne, and Macan. The Cayenne is their top selling vehicle, so maybe they should stop making anything resembling "purist" sports cars and go mainstream with more SUVs and vans. For every person who don't buy the sports car they can pickup 5 soccer moms
Stop making sports cars? You've lost me here.
12-19-2014, 05:32 PM
#55
I'm quoting you because you're saying the definition of purist changes and you seem to say that "purist" means how many sales they can get of a vehicle, since they can sell more automatics than manuals with the GT3. So what if it offends those old fashioned people who enjoyed driving the GT3 in 2011. Apparently getting as broad a range of buyer as possible is more important than making a car that's actually enjoyable for people who like sports cars. So maybe the next GT3 can be the Cayenne that comes with spongebob built into the backseat screens and a dog carrier. If there's a broader market it must be the best car
12-19-2014, 05:53 PM
#56
Race Director
I'm quoting you because you're saying the definition of purist changes and you seem to say that "purist" means how many sales they can get of a vehicle, since they can sell more automatics than manuals with the GT3. So what if it offends those old fashioned people who enjoyed driving the GT3 in 2011. Apparently getting as broad a range of buyer as possible is more important than making a car that's actually enjoyable for people who like sports cars. So maybe the next GT3 can be the Cayenne that comes with spongebob built into the backseat screens and a dog carrier. If there's a broader market it must be the best car
I still can't follow your logic. I'd rather not have to clog up the boards with having to respond to this.
12-19-2014, 06:36 PM
#57
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There's a few guys showing they have a decent perspective on things, but a lot more would do well to comb through some old back issues of R&T, etc. Do that and I guarantee you'll be shocked to see almost the exact same things being said about the 911 twenty, thirty years ago. Seriously. The sport/GT question is as old as the car itself!
As for the 'purist' question, whatever that means. There's definitely those who've made a fetish, or religion if you prefer, of the clutch pedal. For them I guess as long as there's a clutch they will cling to the 'purist' pose. For everyone else its been a long, slow slog.
If 'purist' means driver only no corrective systems, well Porsche introduced ABS (and power steering) on the 964 so the last purist 911 was the Carrera. But hey, what about fuel injection? Surely 'purist' means carburetors? Or does someone want to defend DFI as being more 'purist' than Weber? I don't think so.
So then the last 'purist' 911 was whatever year they made the last 911T. Which somebody can look up but off hand I'd say takes us back to the 60's.
Last I looked, we're just shy of 2015. Awful late to be talking about the last 'purist' 911. But there you go….
As for the 'purist' question, whatever that means. There's definitely those who've made a fetish, or religion if you prefer, of the clutch pedal. For them I guess as long as there's a clutch they will cling to the 'purist' pose. For everyone else its been a long, slow slog.
If 'purist' means driver only no corrective systems, well Porsche introduced ABS (and power steering) on the 964 so the last purist 911 was the Carrera. But hey, what about fuel injection? Surely 'purist' means carburetors? Or does someone want to defend DFI as being more 'purist' than Weber? I don't think so.
So then the last 'purist' 911 was whatever year they made the last 911T. Which somebody can look up but off hand I'd say takes us back to the 60's.
Last I looked, we're just shy of 2015. Awful late to be talking about the last 'purist' 911. But there you go….
+1.
I like Chuck's perspective.
12-19-2014, 07:06 PM
#58
Rennlist Member
So I'm new to Porsche as of 4/14 with a Boxster S. I'm about to say goodbye to the Boxster in exchange for a 2012.5 991s cab. So I don't have the chops to define what "purist" means in 911 context, but so many of these comments could easily be put into a "luddited" context. What's "pure" - the car or the driving experience? Isn't the whole idea of buying a car like a Porsche actually investing in our individual and shared experiences?
Maybe by losing the Boxster I'll be "forced" to learn better driving in the 991 which will then better equip me to drive a 997/996, then a 993, and so forth and I'll feel the exhilaration of mastering new skills. But I don't see how, within realistic limits, what I'm driving should detract from the joy of driving. If engineering progress means I can shift the focus from driving the car to driving the road then I'm all in.
Sorry - newbie semi-rant "off"
gordon
Maybe by losing the Boxster I'll be "forced" to learn better driving in the 991 which will then better equip me to drive a 997/996, then a 993, and so forth and I'll feel the exhilaration of mastering new skills. But I don't see how, within realistic limits, what I'm driving should detract from the joy of driving. If engineering progress means I can shift the focus from driving the car to driving the road then I'm all in.
Sorry - newbie semi-rant "off"
gordon
12-19-2014, 07:21 PM
#59
There's a few guys showing they have a decent perspective on things, but a lot more would do well to comb through some old back issues of R&T, etc. Do that and I guarantee you'll be shocked to see almost the exact same things being said about the 911 twenty, thirty years ago. Seriously. The sport/GT question is as old as the car itself!
As for the 'purist' question, whatever that means. There's definitely those who've made a fetish, or religion if you prefer, of the clutch pedal. For them I guess as long as there's a clutch they will cling to the 'purist' pose. For everyone else its been a long, slow slog.
If 'purist' means driver only no corrective systems, well Porsche introduced ABS (and power steering) on the 964 so the last purist 911 was the Carrera. But hey, what about fuel injection? Surely 'purist' means carburetors? Or does someone want to defend DFI as being more 'purist' than Weber? I don't think so.
So then the last 'purist' 911 was whatever year they made the last 911T. Which somebody can look up but off hand I'd say takes us back to the 60's.
Last I looked, we're just shy of 2015. Awful late to be talking about the last 'purist' 911. But there you go….
As for the 'purist' question, whatever that means. There's definitely those who've made a fetish, or religion if you prefer, of the clutch pedal. For them I guess as long as there's a clutch they will cling to the 'purist' pose. For everyone else its been a long, slow slog.
If 'purist' means driver only no corrective systems, well Porsche introduced ABS (and power steering) on the 964 so the last purist 911 was the Carrera. But hey, what about fuel injection? Surely 'purist' means carburetors? Or does someone want to defend DFI as being more 'purist' than Weber? I don't think so.
So then the last 'purist' 911 was whatever year they made the last 911T. Which somebody can look up but off hand I'd say takes us back to the 60's.
Last I looked, we're just shy of 2015. Awful late to be talking about the last 'purist' 911. But there you go….
