The now "age old debate" PDK vs Manual in the GTS, HELP
11-09-2014, 10:06 AM
#61
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I test drove the PDK and after 5 min I found it extremely boring and was really missing the manual. I also got a loaner car with the PDK and drove it for a couple days and it really made me miss the manual. Maybe my definition of "better" is different than some, but something that takes away the fun of driving is not a superior technology in my opinion. Maybe in the future Porsche will offer a car you can "drive" around the track that doesn't even require you to sit in the car and will run off programming for the optimal track time. Is technology that takes you away from driving the car really "superior" technology if it's faster? Are most people who care so much about shift times with the PDK professionals drivers who are making a living on these fractions of a second? Part of the reason I bought the 991 vs a faster car like the Corvette is how it feels to drive. The whole reason I bought a sports car is to enjoy the driving process and the manual transmission is a huge part of that process.
11-09-2014, 10:36 AM
#62
Having owned an e46 M3 with SMG (latest tech, cool factor) and a GT-R (no choice), I would never own an automated gearbox again. They might be slightly faster at the track, but unless you are racing, who cares? The manual is more entertaining.
For street use, the auto boxes are a total bore and the slightly quicker shifts are meaningless. I've owned manual cars for 40 years now, and prefer them in every way, even in stop and go traffic. If you're used to driving them, you don't even think about it.
The 7MT is the best shifter I've ever had, it feels like sliding the bolt on a good rifle. Extremely precise and solid feeling. I realize Porsche sells mostly PDK's because that's what people think they want, but I think they are missing out on core part of the driving experience.
For street use, the auto boxes are a total bore and the slightly quicker shifts are meaningless. I've owned manual cars for 40 years now, and prefer them in every way, even in stop and go traffic. If you're used to driving them, you don't even think about it.
The 7MT is the best shifter I've ever had, it feels like sliding the bolt on a good rifle. Extremely precise and solid feeling. I realize Porsche sells mostly PDK's because that's what people think they want, but I think they are missing out on core part of the driving experience.
11-09-2014, 02:13 PM
#64
I always hear these quotes about dual clutch transmissions shifting in 100 msec. I wonder how fast my '15 M4 DCT shifts? Even in the most abrupt shift mode, it doesn't feel that instantaneous. Probably is faster than a manual though and with the help of "Hal' less chance of a missed shift.
Jim
Jim
11-09-2014, 02:21 PM
#65
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I think you hit on the issue right now. Most of the dealer lots (at least in SoCal) are full of PDK cars - its just like whats happened with BMW over the last few years - BMW offers a particular model in manual (example 3 series) but in reality none of those cars are ever ordered by dealers so unless you are really dedicated to finding one you end up taking an automatic from stock. Before I ordered my Cab S I did inventory searches for new and used 2013-15 cars and unless I wanted a White or Black PDK car I had to order.
11-09-2014, 02:23 PM
#66
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If you are buying a new 911, PDK all the way. They are too big anyhow. Why bother with a manual especially for a city car.
A Boxster or Cayman is small and still fun in a manual. But the 991 is just too much of a luxo GT now.
Manuals are best left to the older 911s, thereby if looking for a stick, get a 997 or older.
A Boxster or Cayman is small and still fun in a manual. But the 991 is just too much of a luxo GT now.
Manuals are best left to the older 911s, thereby if looking for a stick, get a 997 or older.
11-09-2014, 02:29 PM
#67
Burning Brakes
If you are buying a new 911, PDK all the way. They are too big anyhow. Why bother with a manual especially for a city car. A Boxster or Cayman is small and still fun in a manual. But the 991 is just too much of a luxo GT now. Manuals are best left to the older 911s, thereby if looking for a stick, get a 997 or older.
11-09-2014, 02:35 PM
#68
Burning Brakes
I think you hit on the issue right now. Most of the dealer lots (at least in SoCal) are full of PDK cars - its just like whats happened with BMW over the last few years - BMW offers a particular model in manual (example 3 series) but in reality none of those cars are ever ordered by dealers so unless you are really dedicated to finding one you end up taking an automatic from stock. Before I ordered my Cab S I did inventory searches for new and used 2013-15 cars and unless I wanted a White or Black PDK car I had to order.
I specced a min option 981c and it sold in under two weeks. The radically over specced floor model I test drove (not a demo) sat for over a year, had to be punched, CPO'd and sold at a massive discount.
IMO Porsche needs to stick fast fewer lot cars, streamline the ordering process/timeline a bit and spec far fewer "loaded" lot cars.
11-09-2014, 03:41 PM
#70
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11-09-2014, 03:41 PM
#71
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I think you hit on the issue right now. Most of the dealer lots (at least in SoCal) are full of PDK cars - its just like whats happened with BMW over the last few years - BMW offers a particular model in manual (example 3 series) but in reality none of those cars are ever ordered by dealers so unless you are really dedicated to finding one you end up taking an automatic from stock. Before I ordered my Cab S I did inventory searches for new and used 2013-15 cars and unless I wanted a White or Black PDK car I had to order.
11-09-2014, 05:00 PM
#72
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I'm endlessly surprised by this endless debate...
£1000+ Automatic watches are not as accurate in their primary function as £10- digital watches .... And 991 manual boxes are not as fast changing as £2000+ PDK boxes... So as a technology guy with an automatic watch and a PDK box how can I apply any logic? I can't. I just love each for how it suits me... And if you suit digital watch and manual tranny then go forth my friend and enjoy getting to your destination more on time than me and with more gearstick action.... Ultimately we all buy to suit our needs/pleasures but we all arrive in a style we shouldn't take for-granted
£1000+ Automatic watches are not as accurate in their primary function as £10- digital watches .... And 991 manual boxes are not as fast changing as £2000+ PDK boxes... So as a technology guy with an automatic watch and a PDK box how can I apply any logic? I can't. I just love each for how it suits me... And if you suit digital watch and manual tranny then go forth my friend and enjoy getting to your destination more on time than me and with more gearstick action.... Ultimately we all buy to suit our needs/pleasures but we all arrive in a style we shouldn't take for-granted
11-09-2014, 08:00 PM
#73
There is a lot of truth to this. Dealers in general radically over spec their lot cars and Porsche is no exception. $3k seats, thousands more for a 99cent moving map app, thousands for different but no better wheels, etc.
I specced a min option 981c and it sold in under two weeks. The radically over specced floor model I test drove (not a demo) sat for over a year, had to be punched, CPO'd and sold at a massive discount.
IMO Porsche needs to stick fast fewer lot cars, streamline the ordering process/timeline a bit and spec far fewer "loaded" lot cars.
I specced a min option 981c and it sold in under two weeks. The radically over specced floor model I test drove (not a demo) sat for over a year, had to be punched, CPO'd and sold at a massive discount.
IMO Porsche needs to stick fast fewer lot cars, streamline the ordering process/timeline a bit and spec far fewer "loaded" lot cars.
I think a lot of the push towards PDK is that Porsche makes higher margins off the more heavier and more complicated transmission, plus they can share the part with the sedan and SUV.
As I put in my previous post, it just isn't fun for me to drive a sports car by flipping paddles or putting it in "D" and having the car shift for me. If I cared about practicality vs fun I'd buy a minivan. Without the manual I might as well go for the minivan because I just don't enjoy the PDK. I don't care how fast it is
11-09-2014, 08:41 PM
#75
This one goes round and round, my current car is PDK - bought it CPO and like many on here, finding 7MT on the lot was very difficult - this one was at a price and condition I couldn't pass. I like the dual nature of the car with PDK - you can put it in D and just chill in traffic or talking to passengers or whatever. Then you can put it in sport or sport plus, slide the lever over and manual shift and have a good time. It really gives the car a dual nature and with the PSE - you can have a chill auto quiet car and a somewhat loud manual shift fun car all in one. BUT the caveat for me is the clicking paddles or flicking the shifter almost is like a video game or simulator not driving so much - hard to explain what I'm trying to say but I think most of you "get it".
Still, I miss the direct feel and control. Its not so much the clutch pedal as referenced by another poster. Its the little things like being in gear and just letting off the gas and letting the car decelerate on its on, creating "free" pops and crackles. You can also feel the gears and the actuation of the transmission. Also - you can decide what gear you want and control it without having a computer fault put you in a limp mode or locking you into a gear. Can you still push start a car these days?
My E92 M3 was a 6MT and I liked it but really didn't like the 1st gear. I think that made me more open to the PDK idea on this car - as when I picked up my M3 at the Performance Center and drove a DCT I was like damn!. Every previous car (other than wife's or pickup) I've had has been manual (3 pedal kind - I know DCT and PDK are manual). I have driven a manual 991S once, and it was nothing like the M3.
Soooooo, I think (as of right now since I go back and forth) I'm going to custom order a 7MT this spring. OP hope this helps, it really depends on what you want more - the dual nature of the car or the more tactile sensations.
Still, I miss the direct feel and control. Its not so much the clutch pedal as referenced by another poster. Its the little things like being in gear and just letting off the gas and letting the car decelerate on its on, creating "free" pops and crackles. You can also feel the gears and the actuation of the transmission. Also - you can decide what gear you want and control it without having a computer fault put you in a limp mode or locking you into a gear. Can you still push start a car these days?
My E92 M3 was a 6MT and I liked it but really didn't like the 1st gear. I think that made me more open to the PDK idea on this car - as when I picked up my M3 at the Performance Center and drove a DCT I was like damn!. Every previous car (other than wife's or pickup) I've had has been manual (3 pedal kind - I know DCT and PDK are manual). I have driven a manual 991S once, and it was nothing like the M3.
Soooooo, I think (as of right now since I go back and forth) I'm going to custom order a 7MT this spring. OP hope this helps, it really depends on what you want more - the dual nature of the car or the more tactile sensations.