911 going all turbo?
01-10-2015, 11:58 AM
#46
Rennlist Member
I was just looking forwards to graduating and being able to afford a brand new N/A 911 for myself post-college, but now the only N/A 911s left will be used ones. I wish it wasn't happening so soon!
01-10-2015, 12:03 PM
#47
Drifting
As someone who dreamed about 911's in jr. high school and finally got one at 44yrs old I can relate to getting close to the dream car.
I'm sure he's not on suicide watch, but there's nothing wrong with an achiever and goal setter. Something that seems to be non existent in the under 30yr old crowd these days.
I'm sure he's not on suicide watch, but there's nothing wrong with an achiever and goal setter. Something that seems to be non existent in the under 30yr old crowd these days.
Funny, on that note I have a young guy working for me that has his life plan + goals drawn out and mapped to certain cars at certain ages... M3 at 30, 911 Turbo at 40, etc. I love the initiative/drive but it should also be realistic too. As it stands he is easily my best sales rep in terms of commitment/work ethic so I'm sure he'll get there eventually.
01-10-2015, 12:07 PM
#48
Drifting
I like to think I have my priorities in line pretty damn well. With going to engineering school and trying to get through it as best and quickly as I can manage, while trying to find internships at the same time.
I was just looking forwards to graduating and being able to afford a brand new N/A 911 for myself post-college, but now the only N/A 911s left will be used ones. I wish it wasn't happening so soon!
I was just looking forwards to graduating and being able to afford a brand new N/A 911 for myself post-college, but now the only N/A 911s left will be used ones. I wish it wasn't happening so soon!
That said is buying a brand new 911 ($100k+) a realistic plan/goal for someone upon graduation from college? If you're expecting to be able to afford one right out of school I'd love to know what sort of job you have lined up and to see if they are hiring.
I kid of course... not sure what your timeline is on that but I'd try and temper your enthusiasm a bit by focusing on job/career, buying a house, sorting out your personal/family situation... and oh yeah, having fun while you still can!
01-10-2015, 12:18 PM
#49
Rennlist Member
Totally agreed and I was the same... I had a 930 Turbo poster on my wall when I was like 10 and have always seen myself eventually ending up in a Porsche. Absolutely good to have dreams/goals but my point was I think you can take it too far and focus on the wrong things at the wrong time.
Funny, on that note I have a young guy working for me that has his life plan + goals drawn out and mapped to certain cars at certain ages... M3 at 30, 911 Turbo at 40, etc. I love the initiative/drive but it should also be realistic too. As it stands he is easily my best sales rep in terms of commitment/work ethic so I'm sure he'll get there eventually.
Funny, on that note I have a young guy working for me that has his life plan + goals drawn out and mapped to certain cars at certain ages... M3 at 30, 911 Turbo at 40, etc. I love the initiative/drive but it should also be realistic too. As it stands he is easily my best sales rep in terms of commitment/work ethic so I'm sure he'll get there eventually.
Cool man, all good.
That said is buying a brand new 911 ($100k+) a realistic plan/goal for someone upon graduation from college? If you're expecting to be able to afford one right out of school I'd love to know what sort of job you have lined up and to see if they are hiring.
I kid of course... not sure what your timeline is on that but I'd try and temper your enthusiasm a bit by focusing on job/career, buying a house, sorting out your personal/family situation... and oh yeah, having fun while you still can!
That said is buying a brand new 911 ($100k+) a realistic plan/goal for someone upon graduation from college? If you're expecting to be able to afford one right out of school I'd love to know what sort of job you have lined up and to see if they are hiring.
I kid of course... not sure what your timeline is on that but I'd try and temper your enthusiasm a bit by focusing on job/career, buying a house, sorting out your personal/family situation... and oh yeah, having fun while you still can!
I'm still finishing up and working on my resume, because I don't think is or ever will be perfect.
It just seems like all the real fun is dying off quicker than I can actually have the chance to enjoy it. I mean, if they're able to:
1. completely eliminate turbo lag, and give it excellent throttle response
2. make it sound as good as an N/A
3. make the power delivery and torque curve as linear or exactly like ab N/A
4. not stoup down to BMWs level and play noise through the speakers
Basically, if they can make it as good as an N/A, which to my knowledge is pretty much impossible, or make it somewhat like the California T, then maybe there's hope.
01-10-2015, 05:59 PM
#50
Race Director
01-10-2015, 06:04 PM
#51
Rennlist Member
¡Viva la Revolución!
01-17-2015, 08:55 PM
#52
Rennlist Member
It's official now everyone. From Porsche's chief engineer, Wolfgang Hatz, at the Detroit auto show.
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/p...rbo-2015-01-16
But he says at least the 911 will never get the Flat-4.
Apparently the engines in the 2016 cars will be modified versions of those that we'll see on the GT3 RS.
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/p...rbo-2015-01-16
But he says at least the 911 will never get the Flat-4.
Apparently the engines in the 2016 cars will be modified versions of those that we'll see on the GT3 RS.
01-18-2015, 07:42 AM
#54
You can thank the EU for all this turbo nonsense! It's the biggest bluff in the auto industry but the manufactures has to follow it! They optimize the cars fuel economy for the euro cycle! Gets a big pad on the back from the EU but in real life your fuel consumption is about about 30-40 more than it states! Politics at its best! A great way to meet your emission goals on paper but nothing has changed in real life! German and Swedish has reviled this! Auto Motor Sport being the most aggressive.
01-18-2015, 02:16 PM
#55
Race Director
So the 911 facelift to remain a Flat 6 and turbo charged??
To quote Hatz:
Hatz said this RS’s engine is an “intermediate step” on the way to the launch of all-new engines for lesser 911s later this year, and he all-but confirmed that the facelifted 991 range will switch to turbocharged induction for all but the GT3. “We have to respect the legal requirements [for CO2 numbers],” he explained, “but don’t worry, if you have a turbocharged engine it will rev, it will deliver.” Although Porsche is part of Volkswagen Group for CO2 figures, it has committed to reducing emissions on like-for-like models by at least 15 per cent, meaning a move to forced induction. However, Hatz confirmed that the 911 will be powered by flat-six engines for the foreseeable future, and that the new turbocharged four-cylinder that’s being developed for the Cayman and Boxster won’t be used to create a latter-day 912. “We don’t have a problem with a four-cylinder sports car, but never on the 911. The 911 has to remain flat-six.”
To quote Hatz:
Hatz said this RS’s engine is an “intermediate step” on the way to the launch of all-new engines for lesser 911s later this year, and he all-but confirmed that the facelifted 991 range will switch to turbocharged induction for all but the GT3. “We have to respect the legal requirements [for CO2 numbers],” he explained, “but don’t worry, if you have a turbocharged engine it will rev, it will deliver.” Although Porsche is part of Volkswagen Group for CO2 figures, it has committed to reducing emissions on like-for-like models by at least 15 per cent, meaning a move to forced induction. However, Hatz confirmed that the 911 will be powered by flat-six engines for the foreseeable future, and that the new turbocharged four-cylinder that’s being developed for the Cayman and Boxster won’t be used to create a latter-day 912. “We don’t have a problem with a four-cylinder sports car, but never on the 911. The 911 has to remain flat-six.”
01-18-2015, 02:26 PM
#56
Rennlist Member
As much as the turbocharged false economy annoys the hell out of me, I'm starting to think that maybe this won't be so bad, even though. I'm beginning to think a little more openly about this only if
They might be getting modified versions of the GT3 RS motor, so that' s pretty sweet.
I'm thinking that if they don't put high pressure turbos on them, they may still keep their N/A characteristics to a good extent.
Even so, this is still annoying nonsense that will drive up prices of these cars even higher, that's what annoys me. I dread the day a base Carrera goes over $100k.
They might be getting modified versions of the GT3 RS motor, so that' s pretty sweet.
I'm thinking that if they don't put high pressure turbos on them, they may still keep their N/A characteristics to a good extent.
Even so, this is still annoying nonsense that will drive up prices of these cars even higher, that's what annoys me. I dread the day a base Carrera goes over $100k.
01-18-2015, 03:03 PM
#57
Loved the R&T article but it has one glaring error that seriously undermines the main argument against turbo's.
"A naturally aspirated engine's output is determined by the position of the pedal and the engine speed, period."
This is false, period.
On every Porsche model from the GT3 on down, pedal position merely provides data to software that determines how much throttle you get. In Normal mode there's HUGE throttle lag built right in. Nothing you can do about it. Except press Sport. But there's still throttle lag even in Sport. So, if you got Sport Chrono you press Sport Plus. And guess what? There's still throttle lag!
"Ha!" you say, "I'll get me a GT3!" So you do. And what's the first thing you notice? Same damn buttons!
Sorry R&T, but you want to say "period" you better be talking about the Cup car. All the rest are managed to hell.
But guess what? As sick as this is (they're basically making you pay for something then making it impossible to use) it means the upcoming turbo'd cars will almost certainly have virtually the same throttle response as today's NA Porsches. No they won't feel and sound exactly the same. But they won't be nearly as awful as everyone here seems to fear. More likely this will be the equivalent of going to electronic steering.
Not that any of this changes the fact the FI mandate is pure BS, raw despicable tyranny of the worst sort (Did anyone vote for this? No!), part and parcel of a greater plan to control all mankind under a New World Order one world government, a plan in which the whole CO2 climate change fraud plays a central role. But that's a subject for another thread.
"A naturally aspirated engine's output is determined by the position of the pedal and the engine speed, period."
This is false, period.
On every Porsche model from the GT3 on down, pedal position merely provides data to software that determines how much throttle you get. In Normal mode there's HUGE throttle lag built right in. Nothing you can do about it. Except press Sport. But there's still throttle lag even in Sport. So, if you got Sport Chrono you press Sport Plus. And guess what? There's still throttle lag!
"Ha!" you say, "I'll get me a GT3!" So you do. And what's the first thing you notice? Same damn buttons!
Sorry R&T, but you want to say "period" you better be talking about the Cup car. All the rest are managed to hell.
But guess what? As sick as this is (they're basically making you pay for something then making it impossible to use) it means the upcoming turbo'd cars will almost certainly have virtually the same throttle response as today's NA Porsches. No they won't feel and sound exactly the same. But they won't be nearly as awful as everyone here seems to fear. More likely this will be the equivalent of going to electronic steering.
Not that any of this changes the fact the FI mandate is pure BS, raw despicable tyranny of the worst sort (Did anyone vote for this? No!), part and parcel of a greater plan to control all mankind under a New World Order one world government, a plan in which the whole CO2 climate change fraud plays a central role. But that's a subject for another thread.
01-18-2015, 03:28 PM
#58
maybe my 2015 GTS will be worth millions someday 
01-18-2015, 04:59 PM
#59
Three Wheelin'
Loved the R&T article but it has one glaring error that seriously undermines the main argument against turbo's.
"A naturally aspirated engine's output is determined by the position of the pedal and the engine speed, period."
This is false, period.
On every Porsche model from the GT3 on down, pedal position merely provides data to software that determines how much throttle you get. In Normal mode there's HUGE throttle lag built right in. Nothing you can do about it. Except press Sport. But there's still throttle lag even in Sport. So, if you got Sport Chrono you press Sport Plus. And guess what? There's still throttle lag!
"Ha!" you say, "I'll get me a GT3!" So you do. And what's the first thing you notice? Same damn buttons!
Sorry R&T, but you want to say "period" you better be talking about the Cup car. All the rest are managed to hell.
But guess what? As sick as this is (they're basically making you pay for something then making it impossible to use) it means the upcoming turbo'd cars will almost certainly have virtually the same throttle response as today's NA Porsches. No they won't feel and sound exactly the same. But they won't be nearly as awful as everyone here seems to fear. More likely this will be the equivalent of going to electronic steering.
Not that any of this changes the fact the FI mandate is pure BS, raw despicable tyranny of the worst sort (Did anyone vote for this? No!), part and parcel of a greater plan to control all mankind under a New World Order one world government, a plan in which the whole CO2 climate change fraud plays a central role. But that's a subject for another thread.
"A naturally aspirated engine's output is determined by the position of the pedal and the engine speed, period."
This is false, period.
On every Porsche model from the GT3 on down, pedal position merely provides data to software that determines how much throttle you get. In Normal mode there's HUGE throttle lag built right in. Nothing you can do about it. Except press Sport. But there's still throttle lag even in Sport. So, if you got Sport Chrono you press Sport Plus. And guess what? There's still throttle lag!
"Ha!" you say, "I'll get me a GT3!" So you do. And what's the first thing you notice? Same damn buttons!
Sorry R&T, but you want to say "period" you better be talking about the Cup car. All the rest are managed to hell.
But guess what? As sick as this is (they're basically making you pay for something then making it impossible to use) it means the upcoming turbo'd cars will almost certainly have virtually the same throttle response as today's NA Porsches. No they won't feel and sound exactly the same. But they won't be nearly as awful as everyone here seems to fear. More likely this will be the equivalent of going to electronic steering.
Not that any of this changes the fact the FI mandate is pure BS, raw despicable tyranny of the worst sort (Did anyone vote for this? No!), part and parcel of a greater plan to control all mankind under a New World Order one world government, a plan in which the whole CO2 climate change fraud plays a central role. But that's a subject for another thread.
Oh, and the tyranny part. I dunno if it is a control or world order thing. I think though that a re-reading of Alexis De Tocqueville's "Democracy in America", particularly the part that discusses Tyranny of the Masses, might put CAFE standards and the impact on automobile engines in perspective.
01-18-2015, 05:48 PM
#60
Arghhh! I was with you up to the last character you typed. I was waiting for it, waiting for it, waiting for it - then nothin'. So, if I may hijack your logical reasoning . . . Porsche builds in the lag and manages it. Down the road, trying to sell more cars, they claim their engineers have been hard at work solving the lag problem and offer a car with little or less lag. Oh, and they jack up the price for this "evolution"/refinement. Damn, I wish I wasn't such a pessimist but I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than let down.
Oh, and the tyranny part. I dunno if it is a control or world order thing. I think though that a re-reading of Alexis De Tocqueville's "Democracy in America", particularly the part that discusses Tyranny of the Masses, might put CAFE standards and the impact on automobile engines in perspective.
Oh, and the tyranny part. I dunno if it is a control or world order thing. I think though that a re-reading of Alexis De Tocqueville's "Democracy in America", particularly the part that discusses Tyranny of the Masses, might put CAFE standards and the impact on automobile engines in perspective.
You're probably right about the credit. Between the C4S, GT3 and now GTS they've made at least three revisions to steering feel that are completely software driven. Yet you'd never know it- unless you're Chris Harris asking the right guy the right questions. So they'll crow about turbo technology, which in truth will be part of it, while never mentioning the lion's share of it is due to just not slowing things down as much as they have been doing for years now on all the NA cars everyone thinks are so damn responsive.
By the way when I talk to American muscle car tuner guys they all know about this. Cars with 400 hp and direct throttle control are a handful.
Tocqueville was talking about a tyranny of the majority. The tyranny we face today is one of unelected bureaucrats imposing their will through regulations the people don't even know about, much less have the opportunity to vote on. The EU is the worst, and you can go listen to Nigel Farage lambaste these people for being both unelected and contemptuous of the electorate. But the US is not far behind.
