Porsche_nuts

It just keeps on getting better

oCarbon

Here we go.

Hi David,

For the record, I'm not mad at you. I don't think you're purposefully making misleading statements (I can't say the same for your fellow poster). I'm really sorry this wing project took longer than you had anticipated, but I still disagree with some of your points in this post, especially since I felt as if I had made it pretty clear that this was going to be labor intensive and I would need time to make it work. I can take some responsibility for not making it more clear that these parts would take more work after the original estimate, as it appears we only glossed over it a few times in the 70 or so long emails we shared, so I am sorry about that.

Looking through my emails, it seems as though we originally anticipated the wing earlier, but not by much, perhaps a week or so. So in the big scheme of things the original broken wing was not a major factor in delays, but it is important because it shows how flimsy the original part was.

It's just a foam core that has been sprayed with gelcoat that has fiberglass bits in it (that's the layman's explanation for hybrid composite polyurethane). I'm not knocking the quality of it, as its designed to be a lightweight/aerodynamic part. And it is one of the nicer wings I have seen. However, it is still pretty flimsy. It is designed for paint only and isn't designed to take the beating that is required to wrap the part in carbon. We have to manhandle these parts and bake them at a high temperature to get them to cure. Foam is not ideal for this process.

I've been doing this a long time and have seen many other companies try and cut costs and corners by not taking the time to work things properly. Here is a splitter made of foam off a Mercedes Benz Brabus vehicle. Foam core, wrapped in one single "cheap" layer of carbon fiber (5.7oz 2x2 twill, the cheapest possible) and one more layer of thin fiberglass, with a thin layer of fiberglass for a bottom and no further reinforcement:





The thing was not reenforced properly and sure enough, the foam was not strong enough to handle the part and it split in half. This is exactly what I was trying to avoid. I had visions of pictures David had sent me with his original foam wing split in half, and something of that nature happening while we were working on it.

Picture of the original broken wing that David received:



This was actually not a delivery promise, and was an estimate, and it was an initial estimate made via email before we knew what the part was made of and it was before I even had the part in my hands. Both of us made assumptions that it was possibly fiberglass or ABS, but we were still uncertain. The full quote is as follows:

"I think I can do the wing at a discounted $1500, as long as I have plenty of time to do it, as I figure its going to be a ton of work. I don’t think it will be possible to have it done the first week of July, I think probably middle or end of July is a little more realistic, possibly slightly longer if we run into any snags. But thats assume you get it to us quickly."

After the first wing arrived to you broken and we determined that it was foam, we spoke further about what it was made of and that it would require more work:

"This might take a little more work then. Are you okay with me coating the entire thing in epoxy and then sanding it down? It will make it a little thicker, but will stiffen it up a bit. I don’t want to run into any problems hitting that foam, as I’m sure its pretty soft."

Even though it was now more work than I originally anticipated and needed much more reenforcement than I had planned for. We ended up going with a 20oz 2x2 twill, which has 4 times as much strands of carbon than standard fabric (and is more expensive than standard carbon), just to make sure that the wing would not run into any issues down the road breaking or splitting. Even though the materials costs and labor costs had increased significantly since the original emailed quote, I did not ask for more money because I really wanted to do the project.

This whole time I was under the impression that you knew we'd need to take more time and we might run into snags given the new findings that it was foam and not ABS/FGRP.

I especially thought we were okay to take our time to do it right because we had remained in constant contact, I had been emailing you pictures of the project's progress, and most importantly we had already delivered the headlight covers to you and you were extremely pleased with them.

Again, not "delivery promises" but estimates. That's why I used words like "hopefully' (meaning, I hope we don't have any more minor things I need to fix). I do this purposefully, especially on a part like this that we've never done before, because the reality is, I don't know how long its going to take to do correctly the first time until I've done it. The best I can do is provide an estimate. The edges were still giving us problems, and the last thing I want to do is ship out a part that isn't done right, just to get it out the door.

Had you not filed the chargeback, we would have been right on schedule of the second estimate and finished the part about a week ago. We got the edges sorted and it's currently all sanded out and ready for clearcoat. However, I stopped working on it once you stated you intended to file a chargeback, I wasn't really sure what to do with it. But since you've filed the chargeback, I'm out the money, you're out the core (and an expensive one at that). I'm even out the money for the headlight covers you've received, as the credit card companies put a hold on the entire transaction until it gets sorted. Seems like a lose-lose situation all around.

Up to you on how you want to move forward, David. I still have the part here, ready to be finished. If you want it, it's yours. If not, I'm still not sure what I'll end up doing with it.

limey940

Hello
I have a 2013 991S. Can you give me a sense of what it would cost to do the trim?
Also, can you do the sill guards, or would the fact that they get hit from time to time mean the finish would get marred quickly.
I can e mail you directly if that is easier, just let me know. Oh, do you have instructions on how to remove the trim pieces?
Thanks

oCarbon

Hello,

I'm not sure. It's almost done, but it's going to an overseas customer. He just added some more parts, so it might be a couple weeks.

As far as the cores go, it depends on the parts. For the interior trim, we offer a $450 refundable core deposit. You'd pay the deposit, when you install the carbon fiber trim, you can return your original trim back to us, and the $450 is refunded.

For more custom things, like wings, splitters, other random parts that others might not be interested in, it's best if you send us a part to wrap. This wing, for example, I'm not sure if there is a big enough market for me to buy one for myself to offer on a core deposit basis. But I can do core deposits for the interior trim, as I anticipate selling quite a few.

oCarbon

Price for the trim depends on what exactly you want done and how you want it done (fabric, finish, etc). Email me at matt@ocarbon.com if you'd like a quote.

We have done the sills before. They should hold up pretty well, as the epoxy is stiff, but like any painted part, they might get scratched. However, since its automotive clearcoat, you can easily buff out any scratches just like you could your exterior paint.

socalsteve

Ok, from a disinterested 3rd party...

I had a very short but HORRIBLE phone conversation with this vendor regarding selling them some core trim pieces off an Audi A7 I once owned. I felt they were lying used car salesman and I wanted to take a shower after my phone chat with them. They just felt dishonest.

I would NEVER do business with this vendor. I suggest everyone else stay away as well.

Just one mans humble opinion and I have nothing to gain or lose with this.

oCarbon

Hello Steve,

I'm sorry to hear you had a horrible phone conversation.

I'm a little confused. Seems like you just called me to sell me some core trim and I made you feel like I was lying used car salesman? That seems odd, given I wasn't trying to sell you anything.

Did any transaction take place? Or just a short phone call?

jason952

in before close...

The Greek

Ok, this thread is kind of getting out of hand. You disparage this guys business and tell prospective customers to "stay away" at all costs due to a ph call that had nothing to do with the product the company sells??

I have no interest in this thread, but from a business perspective, your post crossed the line. Let others who had a direct business transaction with the vender vent there frustrations.

socalsteve

Actually, I was trying to do business with the company as they buy trim pieces to then wrap in cf and resell. So, I was attempting to do business with them.

But, the feeling I got from my phone conversation was they were a very shady operation and one that I would never do business with.

I am sorry that you feel I crossed a line. I feel that the good people on this forum should be aware of businesses that are shady. This is not the first, nor probably the last time that people have warned others not to do business with this company. Just do a search, you will see that they do not get good feedback as a company in general.

We have to look out for each other's best interest on here, don't you think?

oCarbon

This is just nonsense. How can you get a feeling that my company is "a very shady operation" from a "very short" phone conversation, and one that didn't even involve a transaction? What could I have possibly said to you over the phone that gave you such an impression?

While I don't remember the specific phone call, could it be that maybe I just didn't want to buy what you were trying to sell me and was in the middle of something more important? Have you ever told a telemarketer you weren't interested and quickly tried to get off the phone with them?

Come on people. This is getting out of hand. I know that maybe you think its not a big deal to make anonymous disparaging remarks about companies you haven't done business with, but this is my livelihood here. This is how I put food on the table. When people have legitimate complaints about transactions they've had with me, I don't have a problem with them honestly voicing them in public. But making these kinds of claims about how "shady" and "horrible" I am over an admittedly brief phone conversation without going into specifics is borderline libel.

rnl

I am of the opinion that it's time for this vendor to have an opportunity to sell its goods and services to those willing to listen. Folks have expressed their strong opinions and, it is clear that some are not willing to listen. I wish all who are not instructed by the experiences related here, good luck and good fortune. It is possible that the vendor is being judged by what may have been his sole missteps. Perhaps not.

The Greek

Listen, I could care less about the Carbon Company. The market will play itself out. If he is shady, or cheats customers, enough complaints will arise, and he will be out of business.

My anger is as a business owner. Frankly, your response was bull****. You flat out told prospective customers to stay away as a result of a "feeling" you got when YOU called him to sell him an idea or product. That is just ridiculous. Let customers, like the ones in this thread, state ACTUAL facts and warn the public. They have the right to vent. You on the other hand just decided to chime in and join the witch hunt with a baseless assumption.

Michael_s

Totally agree. I'm in a retail business and get solicited all the time. My response would/is not the same when I'm trying to sell my product.

What do you mean u don't want my used Audi trim. Lol.

ArashApollo

Those pieces look great! Would love to see some pics of custom orders with different color fabrics. Any pics of Kevlar pieces?