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Ask the SA:
What the residual is (this will be dependent on term (number of months/miles), type (PDK vs. manual).
Money factor (should be about .002).
Selling price.
Every lease is based upon these 3 numbers. I have leased too many cars to count, and every dealer has tried to screw me on one or all of the above 3. Get the residual and MF (official, published by Porsche Financial), then negotiate the selling price. As others have posted, Edmunds has a section that you can ask for and get the above numbers.
Once you have good numbers to work from, you can determine what exactly your payment should be. Capitalized cost reduction is nothing but a down payment, dealer contribution is nothing more than how much they are willing to come down off MSRP.
Negotiate the price just like you would a normal car.
My biggest win was a new GL450 for my wife. MB was running a lease special with high residuals and low money factors. Between TrueCar pricing and a certificate for 6k off from my insurance company, I payed half of what they were leasing for several months earlier.
Thanks to everyone who responded, it has been a great help. I think I know what I'm doing now, at least to the point where I can hopefully catch whatever they try to slip past me.
Porsche Financial Services is currently incentivizing leases for MY2014 cars, with a money factor of .0014 (several dealers have told me this same fact, so I'm starting to believe it). I am seeing a higher money factor of about .0024 on MY2015 cars, although that might be negotiable, I haven't yet tried.
Thanks to everyone who responded, it has been a great help. I think I know what I'm doing now, at least to the point where I can hopefully catch whatever they try to slip past me.
Porsche Financial Services is currently incentivizing leases for MY2014 cars, with a money factor of .0014 (several dealers have told me this same fact, so I'm starting to believe it). I am seeing a higher money factor of about .0024 on MY2015 cars, although that might be negotiable, I haven't yet tried.
Why don't you post which one you're looking at and I'm sure there are enough people on here that will help you. Sent you a PM.
The residuals are fixed by porsche finance, where they will try and screw you is the MF and then fees - once you lock those variables down negotiate the sales price.
Btw - different models have different MF in the same model year currently - so be careful. "Edmunds porsche lease" search in google and locate the 2014 911 forum - that's your best resource.
Just as an example - 2014 C4 cab, C4S cab and targas have a 0.0008 MF this month.
Alex 911 - The payment calculator on the Porsche web site is not the most accurate, I would ignore it and just download an app or spreadsheet and put the real numbers into it. The residual value is based off a % of MSRP - no-one buys a $110k C4S in your example, they are more like $125-$130k.
When you look at the price difference between a $130K C4S on a 24 month lease between 7,500 and 10,000 miles a year, it's $50.78 a month or $1281 over the life of the lease. If you end up driving 5,000 miles over your lease, it's only $1,500 extra - so you save only $219 total by pre-paying miles. That's why it's never worth pre-paying too many miles.
I still have the rate sheet from when I bought my 991 (it's a year old, but still interesting reading!). Anyone interested in a lease should just get this from their dealer, as all the numbers are non-negotiable - then you can plug them into a calculator and figure out exactly how much a car might cost you.
This lets you see interesting jumps in the numbers. For example, for a C2S, here are the residual numbers and then 'how much in percentage does the car drop in value for each month'. You can see the 27mth lease is a pretty good deal - it's only dropping 1.15% per month. Notice how bad the 39mth lease is - its MUCH more expensive than a 36 or 48 month lease. Also in many states, for those extra 3 months after 36 you will be paying a whole year in licensing and maybe extra in insurance as well. Basically, never take a 39mth Porsche lease deal.
Months / Residual for a C2S / Residual drop per month
12/78% = 1.83
15/76% = 1.60
24/71% = 1.21
27/69% = 1.15
36/56% = 1.22
39/49% = 1.31
48/44% = 1.17
51/42% = 1.14
60/37% = 1.05
Some of the surprises are also how bad some models are - a Panamera Turbo S will cost you almost HALF it's value for a 12mth lease (crazy eh?). But a 911 C2 Coupe with a manual gearbox will only loose 82% of it's value in a year. If you could get 12% off the MSRP that means you are really only paying about 6% of the cars value for a one year lease....!
These number do often change *a lot* month to month and there are lots of other deals that can affect the end price (conquest cash, trade in sales tax differences) etc... The best advice is still negotiate the best discount off MSRP, that affects the pricing the most (well, not going over the MRM as well),
I still have the rate sheet from when I bought my 991 (it's a year old, but still interesting reading!). Anyone interested in a lease should just get this from their dealer, as all the numbers are non-negotiable - then you can plug them into a calculator and figure out exactly how much a car might cost you.
Excellent contribution, Andy! That's a good perspective on how to approach a lease, the lease term and mileage allowance.
I've got an Audi A6 on order, so I've got lots of time to ruminate over these kinds of things before the car comes in. For the typical 911 buyer, months are spent shopping and agonizing over options, even more so when you are ordering. So we can go through these exercises. It's the poor shlob who goes to the dealer on a Saturday to buy a new car and buys the first shiny thing that takes his or her fancy and leases it without taking the time to properly evaluate the options.
This is a generalization, but I would never do a lease for more than 36 months and even that is stretching it. The sweet spot to me would be 24 months if the rates were okay. I think the figures quoted above show that Porsche doesn't really want you do to a 48 month lease...I agree that example appears to work in their favor, I would think the car would be worth $10K or more than that at least after 4 years.
The C4S 911s I find today from 2010 are priced in the 60s. I would expect a 4-year-old C4S with 40K miles to be worth that much: about half of the purchase price.
With no down payment or trade-in, 24 financing payments will have cost you $78K more than 24 lease payments, but you end up with a 2 year-old 911 to your name. Based on current 2-year-old C4S 911s prices (80s) it would be a lot closer than the 48 month comparison but still seems like the purchase route would have better outcome.
One thing though is your ability to cover the financing payments instead of the lease payments (cash flow).
It seems like the shorter the term the more convenient it is to lease and if you are looking to keep the car for longer (4 years) the purchase seems a better option.
You have to stop using that Porsche calculator! :-)
There are a lot of other variables in a lease, for example, my $132k C4S costs ~$1326 total per month (including 9.8% tax) - this is a bit lower than the $2,192 that the calculator shows...
If you were to finance a Porsche, you would not be paying 5% (as the calculator shows), 1.49% is the rate PenFed would charge for example. I like the ability to swap cars frequently, so short leases work out great for me.
When I last bought, I really liked PenFed's 'payment saver auto loan' - which is a 'balloon loan', so keeps the monthly payment low. For example a $132K C4S would cost for 24mths (according to the calculator):
$32,000 down
$862 a month for 24 months
Then a final payment of $83,362
I like this type of loan as you can sell / trade the car anytime as you own it, it's just much cheaper (I think) than a regular loan. Anyone can check out costs, without joining PenFed (which is only a $20 fee anyway) - just go to Products / Auto Loans / Payment Saver Auto Loan. Then click the Join Now button - you don't have to join at all, you just get taken to the calculator which you can use to figure out payments for various cars.
You have to stop using that Porsche calculator! :-)
There are a lot of other variables in a lease, for example, my $132k C4S costs ~$1326 total per month (including 9.8% tax) - this is a bit lower than the $2,192 that the calculator shows...
If you were to finance a Porsche, you would not be paying 5% (as the calculator shows), 1.49% is the rate PenFed would charge for example. I like the ability to swap cars frequently, so short leases work out great for me.
When I last bought, I really liked PenFed's 'payment saver auto loan' - which is a 'balloon loan', so keeps the monthly payment low. For example a $132K C4S would cost for 24mths (according to the calculator):
$32,000 down
$862 a month for 24 months
Then a final payment of $83,362
I like this type of loan as you can sell / trade the car anytime as you own it, it's just much cheaper (I think) than a regular loan. Anyone can check out costs, without joining PenFed (which is only a $20 fee anyway) - just go to Products / Auto Loans / Payment Saver Auto Loan. Then click the Join Now button - you don't have to join at all, you just get taken to the calculator which you can use to figure out payments for various cars.
Andy
Do I recall that you, (or someone else) mentioned that you can use PennFed to finance a European Delivery car (which wont show up in the US and be titled etc for 6-8 wks or so)?
You have to stop using that Porsche calculator! :-)
There are a lot of other variables in a lease, for example, my $132k C4S costs ~$1326 total per month (including 9.8% tax) - this is a bit lower than the $2,192 that the calculator shows...
If you were to finance a Porsche, you would not be paying 5% (as the calculator shows), 1.49% is the rate PenFed would charge for example. I like the ability to swap cars frequently, so short leases work out great for me.
When I last bought, I really liked PenFed's 'payment saver auto loan' - which is a 'balloon loan', so keeps the monthly payment low. For example a $132K C4S would cost for 24mths (according to the calculator):
$32,000 down
$862 a month for 24 months
Then a final payment of $83,362
I like this type of loan as you can sell / trade the car anytime as you own it, it's just much cheaper (I think) than a regular loan. Anyone can check out costs, without joining PenFed (which is only a $20 fee anyway) - just go to Products / Auto Loans / Payment Saver Auto Loan. Then click the Join Now button - you don't have to join at all, you just get taken to the calculator which you can use to figure out payments for various cars.
Andy
OK. I'll stop using the Porsche calculator (at least exclusively ). Based on your figures, after 24 months You would be out of pocket $53K (32K down payment + 21K in payments) and with a car worth $20K more than what you owe.
I guess especially on shorter terms, leasing makes sense because it allows you to get a $132K Porsche even if you don't have $32K in savings to put down.
That financing option at 4.05% over 2 years is really good!
Hi, I have a 2015 C4S Coupe PDK coming in a few weeks and am starting to evaluate different lease terms.
I'm interested in 24 / 36 months and 5K or 10K miles per year. My dealer has quoted me a money factor of 0.0032 which is crazy high.
What are the current PFS rates for MR, MRM and residual for this setup? Per the recommended Edmunds forums folks are saying the new rates from PFS (published quarterly) aren't out yet. Anyone have the scoop on this?
Many dealers will insist the MF is higher than what PFS states (.0020). When negotiating my lease (2013 C2 Cab) last year I had my local dealer (S Creek) tell me flat out that he "hadn't seen .002 for years' and quoted me .0032 (7.68%!) - this was after I had sent a co-worker to him who bought a car. When I called him on it he lowered the rate to .0022 and asked me when I was coming in - umm - okay. His first offer was $1599 per month (.0032), next offer was $1370. per month (.0022). I ended up going out of state and had the car shipped to me. Haven't been to S Creek since...
I had many dealers try and pull tricks on the MF such as:
- salesperson quotes .002 and sets up the deal and then finance guy says that's not possible
- finance guy quotes .002 only to find out it's really .0029
- salesperson says .002 is not offered
At this time last year I was seeing discounts on current year cars (on the lot) between 10-12% without too much work.
Post your numbers if you're comfortable (and have the exact car you want) and many here will try and help.
Good luck!
I ended up buying instead of leasing, but I did get quoted 0.002 for 2015 cars, and 0.0016 for 2014 cars.
The dealers I spoke to did say the the 2014 number was an incentivized special rate which might not be renewed in October, but I think they were just telling me a story.
09-27-2014, 06:45 PM
). Based on your figures, after 24 months You would be out of pocket $53K (32K down payment + 21K in payments) and with a car worth $20K more than what you owe.
