BenDiem

Greetings all,

Long time P-Car fan and previous owner of three 911s ('85, '99 & '04 Anny Edit).
I left Porsche in '06 to venture into the Viper and Corvette scene. It was fun...
As life generally plays out, I'm coming back to what I know and what is considered home. Porsche is where my heart lies, I suppose.

I have a few concerns/questions while building my special P-Car, and I'm seeking some of your insights, opinions about what you would do, or I'm seeking your general input.

I initially built a '15 C4s that stickers at $121,350 w/manual tranny. If I add PDK, the price goes up to approx $125,500 MSRP.

I then built a '15 Audi R8 V8, with the manual tranny for $120,450.
If adding the PDK, the price jumps to almost $130k (ouch- $9k for their PDK???).

Looking at the price points above, I built a '15 Turbo (non S) for under $157k, which includes the PDK.

Here goes; if I opt to build/purchase a 991 or R8 w the automatic tranny, the Turbo is only approx $30k more expensive than either the two normally aspirated cars I built, supra.

Dilemma: I generally prefer normally aspirated engines (linear acceleration). However, I do appreciate low end torque; hence, why I chose to consider the Audi R8 V8. Has anyone here owned/driven an R8 V8. How does the midrange (torque) compare btw the C4S and the R8 V8?

Coming from Vipers and several Corvette Z06 & ZR1s, will the C4S prove too soft, down low, in the torque curve area? This is why I'm considering the Audi R8 V8 or even the 991 Turbo. I will add, the power/acceleration of the ZR1 was way over the top for a car that I never planned to track. It was a point of too much power for the street. Would the 991 Turbo (non S) prove similar???

Finding an Audi R8 V8 to test drive and/or a 991 Turbo to test drive has proven fruitless...

In the end, I'm always drawn to manual trannies; however, I would consider Porsche's new PDK. Would I be happier with a Turbo? Is the Turbo's service costs significantly more than a C4S?

I also think about the upcoming 991.2 coming out some time in 2015. If I get a Turbo, the 911.2 Turbo would be delayed until mid to late 2016?

Has anyone else been in this sort of dilemma/situation/concern? Thoughts?

Tks/Cheers,

BB

Keadog

I can't help much but my eternal C4S build is closer than that to a TT. While thinking the same thing, I called my insurance agent for ball park rates. C4S around $600/year. TT around $1200 (one claim since 1969 in 2003). I hear maintenance is somewhat more as well. As you have discovered, base TTs are also a bit hard to find.
Don't know anything about the Audi.

onapex

Haven't driven an R8, but isn't it getting an update very soon? One reason I didn't look at the R8 is not wanting to buy a new "old" platform (among other reasons).

tejstar01

The R8 is getting a complete update restyle for next year, just like the Lamborghini Huracan just received. The R8 and the new Huracan are on the same platform.

mtbscott

I came close to getting a V8 R8 with manual. I was in luck a couple of years back when my favorite Audi salesman (have bought three cars from him) called me to say they had a very lightly used one that had come in. He allowed me to take it out by myself for a 30ish mile test drive. At the time I had a very new TT-RS but had told him I might want an R8 in the future.
To be honest, I liked everything about it. Hearing all of the noises that V8 puts out inches behind your head was intoxicating, the handling was what you expect from a mid-engined car, and the overall fit and finish was equivalent to cars costing much more.
So how did I end up in a 911?
Since you've owned one before, you should remember that it's the world's best "everyday" sports car. The R8 would have been great fun for weekend drives or impressing folks at the country club, but by its very nature it's not practical. The 911 does all those things yet can easily be used as a daily driver or road trip car as well as being track ready.
Amongst your current options listed, I'd take the $121K C4S with manual.

ipse dixit

Go drive all three of them if you can.

After you've driven them, the right car will select you.

I went through nearly the same decision as you are going through now. C4S, Turbo, R8. The Turbo that I drove was just too fast, too much car, and not really enjoyable in day-to-day traffic. The R8 had too much drama to it (and the V8 felt slightly underpowered), and the blindspots on the car were not something I wanted to live with, and being mid-engine there was no backseat and the cabin was sort of loud. The C4S, for me, was like Goldilocks. Nice linear acceleration, light and lithe, sporty, easy to live day-in-day out, and no gross blindspots.

But that's for me. What's right for you, well, that's only something you can figure out. Go drive the cars, and put price aside for a minute, and I think the decision will be rather obvious.

Good luck.

kosmo

TTS all the way. the R8 V8 is a bore

docmalone

I have owned the C2S and the V8 R8 with the first gen automated manual transmission (the "jerky" transmission).
I can attest to several things already mentioned, the R8 gets a lot of attention. It feels very much like a Corvette as far as the engine torque. The ride is very stiff. The engine noise is loud and glorious. For me, it wore me out as a DD and became an occasional weekender. It has a large turn radius, does not feel as nimble as a 911 but does have a great stuck to the ground feel (but my C2S actually felt more grounded...)

The turbo takes the cake. Easy every day driver that can be unleashed as a monster when you want. I so much prefer the 911 S or Turbo to the R8 that despite the awesome exotic looks and sound, I just traded it.

BenDiem

All,

Tks very much for your responses. My response to your posts follows:

mtbscott: Great post. I considered the Audi R8 V8 because 2015 will be the last year the V8 will come with a manual tranny. I like that the R8 is not omnipresent, and I don't mind owning a vehicle that is well sorted (last MY of a generation). I do enjoy the sound of a V8, too. My concern is that the R8 may be too slow, even though it has a V8. I would deduce that it should however, have more low down torque than the C4S though. Their torque numbers are similar, yet the R8's max torque comes on at 4500 rpms vis-a-vis the C4S' which comes on at 5600 rpms.

Torque notwithstanding, I agree, the 911 platform is the ultimate DD sports car extant. More interior space, more luggage capacity, less blind spots, much better fuel economy, probably sits higher, etc...

I'll have to find a dealer that has an R8 V8 manual in stock, too. They are difficult to find/locate.

I'm slightly drawn to the C4S over the Turbo due to the superior sound with PSE. I'm also concerned that the Turbo might be over the top like the ZR1 was.

OTOH, I don't want any regrets if I choose the C4S over the Turbo...

This is so frustrating. Can't sleep, can't concentrate, lol.
Decisions, decisions...

Tks/Cheers,

BB

BenDiem

docmalone: Informative post. Tks for your insight!

Cheers/B

UAE_911

Here's a nice head-2-head vid of the P vs the A car. Maybe not exactly the same P and A cars you are looking at but still a nice vid.


When I test drove the C2S vs the R8 myself when making up my mind which one to buy, the P car was the clear winner for me. And I must add, that I owned several A cars previously but the R8 imo just doesn't match the P experience. Expecting delivery of my first P car in October so hopefully it will delivery on my (high) expectations.

Good luck deciding which one is right for you!

Penn4S

Really depends on your driving. I am a 4 time turbo owner all prior to 991. I though I could not drive anything else the car was just so perfect. I daily drove it but no winters or inclement driving. I moved to south eastern Pa 2 years ago and traded my last turbo for a Panny 4 for every day driving. Great car just not the right time for me.

So off car shopping. I looked at the R8 and as **** as I am about parking and upkeep I thought I'd have to take Zanex every time I parked it. Also felt it was old tech and just hadn't been updated. Off turbo shopping. Looked at several and had a dealer talk me into driving a 4S. I thought I'd be underwhelmed. I drive twisties through horse country every day to work. Can't believe i could find a better car to do with every day. I'm a long time Pcar owner so I have become used to the reliability and ease of use for an every day car. The car has plenty of grunt and the handling is superb. Most of us will never find the limits of this car.

Do i miss a turbo? On the highway when some yahoo in a suped up pick up, mustang or Subi, is making me crazy I do yearn for the total kick in the pants power of a turbo but the other 300 days a year I don't think I'll every wring out all of the power in the 4S without some jail time included. I do drive the manual tranny, a bit of a hold over.

Good luck with your choice and you might consider the GT3 as one of the in between options.

Keadog

Good post. I have driven C4S MT v PDK back to back twice this year and the difference (at least with me shifting) is truly phenomenal. We drove the MT first and when we drove the PDK my wife asked "is this a different car?". And she wasn't being funny. The PDK felt that much faster. After the second go round, I changed my never ending order to PDK (albeit somewhat reluctantly).
I think another option, rather than the GT3, would be the C4S PDK X51, especially if you insist on reversing camera, ventilated seats and 5 bolt wheels like I do.

CSK 911 C4S

I was in the same boat as you. After calling most of the Audi dealers around my area and neighboring states to try to find a R8 V8 I came up bust.

Went to my local Porsche dealer a few times and on one of my last visits I was put behind loaded out CPO'ed C4S w/PDK and that's all she wrote.

The Porsche drives better then any Audi I've ever driven.

My previous Audi sales associate who sold me many Audi's in years past when I lived in NC said he would have bought the same thing compared to the R8.

Good luck with your search.

2lflat4

I suggest the 991 Turbo because of the potential of power modifications later down the line. Just my .02