S Powerkit demographics
07-28-2014, 08:07 PM
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S Powerkit demographics
Just curious on those who bought 991s and those who are CONSIDERING 991s what you thought and/or thinking about the power kit.
This is my 5th 911 and to be honest the X51 kit has been shrouded in mystery as far as I am concerned and there is not alot known about it or cars that have it to test.
From the 14 page thread on power kits I learned this:
1. The 991 version appears to be more sophisticated than the 997 in that there is more polishing and porting on the the 991 Kit (from investigations by BGB Motorsports)
2. You can negotiate the price of this option
3.Its GOT to be more that 30 HP by my Butt O Dyno. I am thinking 50.
4. Its going to run you about $20K Aftermarket and installed by Porsche (this is where you can STILL negotiate since you will now have a labor bill)
So when you bought your car or ordered your car did you pass because of the price? Its TOO much for 30HP?
If you bought off the floor would you have considered a X51 if you had had one available ON the floor?
If you are STILL looking for a bit more performance would you consider it AFTERMARKET given through negotiation you can get the whole thing done for almost just the MSRP of the option $20K vs $17K for the option ordered.
Just having experienced it for the first time, these are some of my thoughts:
IF you were considering a GT3 and werent sure about your track events this will be a GREAT alternative
(remember I am NOT KNOCKING the GT3 I have OWNED TWO myself, I am just looking at alternatives for people who may want the GT3 but unsure about going to the track, the issues of using it as a DD, the COST of the GT3 vs the X51 option which now through negotiation can be Tens of THOUSANDS of dollars less expensive that the purchase of the GT3. My guess is that buying a GT3 is a MSRP option or MORE. This is NOT to be disputed: if you are a TRACK ANIMAL and you are going to go ALOT, the GT3 is the BEST Choice, end of story.
The X51 is way more power than I thought.
The song from 5,000 to 7,500 is intoxicating.
The Sleeper effect is much easier to do with the X51
The Ride is nicer
The song is not as good as the 5,000 to 8,000 + song of the GT3 but close.
Finally if you arent going to be a track dedicated rat, the X51 option IS a Financially attractive option which is not what I thought before. Its MUCH more of a serious option to the GT3 than I had ever entertained. MUCH better than I thought.
Your thoughts?
Remember I am just asking what your thoughts were before/during/after purchase not so much about the performance which is well documented in the 14 page thread of real world Powerkit thread.
Thanks.
PS if you are tired of the topic dont read the thread. Thanks
This is my 5th 911 and to be honest the X51 kit has been shrouded in mystery as far as I am concerned and there is not alot known about it or cars that have it to test.
From the 14 page thread on power kits I learned this:
1. The 991 version appears to be more sophisticated than the 997 in that there is more polishing and porting on the the 991 Kit (from investigations by BGB Motorsports)
2. You can negotiate the price of this option
3.Its GOT to be more that 30 HP by my Butt O Dyno. I am thinking 50.
4. Its going to run you about $20K Aftermarket and installed by Porsche (this is where you can STILL negotiate since you will now have a labor bill)
So when you bought your car or ordered your car did you pass because of the price? Its TOO much for 30HP?
If you bought off the floor would you have considered a X51 if you had had one available ON the floor?
If you are STILL looking for a bit more performance would you consider it AFTERMARKET given through negotiation you can get the whole thing done for almost just the MSRP of the option $20K vs $17K for the option ordered.
Just having experienced it for the first time, these are some of my thoughts:
IF you were considering a GT3 and werent sure about your track events this will be a GREAT alternative
(remember I am NOT KNOCKING the GT3 I have OWNED TWO myself, I am just looking at alternatives for people who may want the GT3 but unsure about going to the track, the issues of using it as a DD, the COST of the GT3 vs the X51 option which now through negotiation can be Tens of THOUSANDS of dollars less expensive that the purchase of the GT3. My guess is that buying a GT3 is a MSRP option or MORE. This is NOT to be disputed: if you are a TRACK ANIMAL and you are going to go ALOT, the GT3 is the BEST Choice, end of story.
The X51 is way more power than I thought.
The song from 5,000 to 7,500 is intoxicating.
The Sleeper effect is much easier to do with the X51
The Ride is nicer
The song is not as good as the 5,000 to 8,000 + song of the GT3 but close.
Finally if you arent going to be a track dedicated rat, the X51 option IS a Financially attractive option which is not what I thought before. Its MUCH more of a serious option to the GT3 than I had ever entertained. MUCH better than I thought.
Your thoughts?
Remember I am just asking what your thoughts were before/during/after purchase not so much about the performance which is well documented in the 14 page thread of real world Powerkit thread.
Thanks.
PS if you are tired of the topic dont read the thread. Thanks
07-28-2014, 08:16 PM
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I ordered the PowerKit because I knew how hard it would be to get more horsepower that's reliable and proven, aftermarket.
I could have saved money buying a GT3 but I did not want a PDK car nor a car without a sunroof.
The HP bump is about $450 per pony. Pretty cheap by Porsche standards. Assuming you were going to order PSE and SC anyways.
I could have saved money buying a GT3 but I did not want a PDK car nor a car without a sunroof.
The HP bump is about $450 per pony. Pretty cheap by Porsche standards. Assuming you were going to order PSE and SC anyways.
07-28-2014, 09:27 PM
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Thanks LexVan Exactly what I am looking for
Thanks man, that is exactly the kind of comment I am looking for.
To be honest, i am trying to get my dealer to put some of the floor so people who buy that way can get one on the floor
To be honest, i am trying to get my dealer to put some of the floor so people who buy that way can get one on the floor
07-28-2014, 09:54 PM
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Didn't want a PDK so I passed on the GT3, the X51 was interesting but I was not ordering SC or PSE and it drove the price up to a point that it seemed silly for a run of the mill 911S. At that point I was wondering why not get a 430? Of course I wanted the practicality and everyday use ability of a 911 with the rear seats. So I ended up with a MT low option 911S that has everything I need on the street and is a terror on the track. I do regret skipping PCCB though. My car buying and option selection I find to vary greatly from the average buyer so it's probably not a great data point.
Last edited by 008; 07-29-2014 at 05:32 PM.
07-28-2014, 10:47 PM
#5
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Qualifying my comments as an aspiring Porsche 991 owner and never owning a 911 previously, here are my thoughts;
As some have already stated, the 911S with the X51 power kit today seems to slot just below the more track oriented GT3. While I have considered the GT3 for my future, I have spoken to current Porsche owners and PCA members far more experienced than I who have counseled me that GT3 is much more track oriented at the expense of some creature comforts enabling more comfortable non-track use. Certainly a very reasonable compromise if tracking is your priority use for the car. Mine use would not lean that heavily towards regular tracking but more occasional driving events and PCA social events. That leaves me with these choices as I see them:
From what I have read on-line (including spy photos & videos of test mules) this information is still tempered with some speculation. However it seems like a GTS version will come sooner than the end of the 991 model cycle as was the case for the 997 GTS.
From what I understand, the 997 GTS was, a rear-drive 911 Carrera S with the wider rear track and the wide body of the Carrera 4S; center-lock RS Spyder wheels; a GT3-style interior treatment with Alcantara upholstery; specific fascia treatments; and an extra helping of horsepower via a somewhat equivalent power pack option (adding 23 HP) as standard along with the Performance Exhaust. I believe the bundled cost for the GTS package was a relative value (in Porsche terms) as the cost of the Power Pack and Performance Exhaust alone seemed to cover most of the upgrade cost and the other special things (center-lock RS wheels; GT3-style interior treatment with Alcantara & specific fascia treatments) seemed to almost be included.
I have read many articles in my research that question (or criticize) Porsche for having so many different 911 models. This seems to be justified by the varied individual customer thoughts about what do I want my 911 to be like for me and my expected use.
Right now, the answer for me is leaning to the GTS as I would like the X51 Power Kit and Performance exhaust and this "bundle" seems to fit right for my needs.
As some have already stated, the 911S with the X51 power kit today seems to slot just below the more track oriented GT3. While I have considered the GT3 for my future, I have spoken to current Porsche owners and PCA members far more experienced than I who have counseled me that GT3 is much more track oriented at the expense of some creature comforts enabling more comfortable non-track use. Certainly a very reasonable compromise if tracking is your priority use for the car. Mine use would not lean that heavily towards regular tracking but more occasional driving events and PCA social events. That leaves me with these choices as I see them:
- Get the 911S with X51 Power Kit & Performance Exhaust
- Wait and get the upcoming 911 GTS
From what I have read on-line (including spy photos & videos of test mules) this information is still tempered with some speculation. However it seems like a GTS version will come sooner than the end of the 991 model cycle as was the case for the 997 GTS.
From what I understand, the 997 GTS was, a rear-drive 911 Carrera S with the wider rear track and the wide body of the Carrera 4S; center-lock RS Spyder wheels; a GT3-style interior treatment with Alcantara upholstery; specific fascia treatments; and an extra helping of horsepower via a somewhat equivalent power pack option (adding 23 HP) as standard along with the Performance Exhaust. I believe the bundled cost for the GTS package was a relative value (in Porsche terms) as the cost of the Power Pack and Performance Exhaust alone seemed to cover most of the upgrade cost and the other special things (center-lock RS wheels; GT3-style interior treatment with Alcantara & specific fascia treatments) seemed to almost be included.
I have read many articles in my research that question (or criticize) Porsche for having so many different 911 models. This seems to be justified by the varied individual customer thoughts about what do I want my 911 to be like for me and my expected use.
Right now, the answer for me is leaning to the GTS as I would like the X51 Power Kit and Performance exhaust and this "bundle" seems to fit right for my needs.
07-28-2014, 11:06 PM
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I owned a 991S w/PDK. Traded it in on a 991 GT3 that I cancelled while it was in port in the US and ended up buying a 50th MT that was just right for me.
If you want to go faster than my 50th - buy a S PDK car with sport plus. If you want to go fastest (without buying a GT3/Turbo etc) then buy a S PDK with power kit.
The power kit feels strong above 6000 rpm but I can't say that I feel it below 6000. And as much as I love driving high in the rpm curve, I don't get above 6000 very often on the street.
All that said, I am driving a 50th MT car that has the unique options that I like and the power kit makes me feel better about moving back into a MT car while all those new fangled PDK cars are out there.
If you want to go faster than my 50th - buy a S PDK car with sport plus. If you want to go fastest (without buying a GT3/Turbo etc) then buy a S PDK with power kit.
The power kit feels strong above 6000 rpm but I can't say that I feel it below 6000. And as much as I love driving high in the rpm curve, I don't get above 6000 very often on the street.
All that said, I am driving a 50th MT car that has the unique options that I like and the power kit makes me feel better about moving back into a MT car while all those new fangled PDK cars are out there.
07-28-2014, 11:26 PM
#7
Oldguy,
I ordered my 991 with the X51 powerkit. I was already going to check the sport exhaust and sport-chrono options so the additional cost was a more palatable $13K.
I selected it for the following reasons;
1) I had noticed when test driving the 991 (non-X51) there was a definite feel of a drop in power towards red line, not significant but there. Then when I looked into the X51 tech specs and the available Porsche graphs, I could see that the power curve for the kit appears to address this situation. In addition, the power curve overall appears to be smoother. Now; I'll tell you I am not near the red line every day, but on those few occasions, I don't want to feel the drop in power. Honestly, I think the X51 should be standard equipment on the 911. I'm not through the break in period yet, so I can't say whether my rational thoughts will be correct. If they were; great, if not; oh well.
2) As I was buying a 911, it just made sense to get the most I could out of the normally aspirated Porsche without going to the GT3. I ticked all of the performance options except for PCCB. Just seemed like the right thing to do on a 911.
3) The GT3 was not an option for me for many reasons, but most importantly, I require the back seat for my kid and I also take the car on road trips so it needed to be more comfortable.
4) I don't modify my cars, don't trust aftermarket claims, want the warranty intact, and really don't have the time to mod anyway.
5) If ordering a car, I would always go for the factory installed option rather than installing after delivery. Anytime someone wrenches on your car, the risk of something not getting together right is present. I follow the idea that the less anything is tampered with, the better.
6) Its different and not often selected option, that has to be worth something.
Drew
I ordered my 991 with the X51 powerkit. I was already going to check the sport exhaust and sport-chrono options so the additional cost was a more palatable $13K.
I selected it for the following reasons;
1) I had noticed when test driving the 991 (non-X51) there was a definite feel of a drop in power towards red line, not significant but there. Then when I looked into the X51 tech specs and the available Porsche graphs, I could see that the power curve for the kit appears to address this situation. In addition, the power curve overall appears to be smoother. Now; I'll tell you I am not near the red line every day, but on those few occasions, I don't want to feel the drop in power. Honestly, I think the X51 should be standard equipment on the 911. I'm not through the break in period yet, so I can't say whether my rational thoughts will be correct. If they were; great, if not; oh well.
2) As I was buying a 911, it just made sense to get the most I could out of the normally aspirated Porsche without going to the GT3. I ticked all of the performance options except for PCCB. Just seemed like the right thing to do on a 911.
3) The GT3 was not an option for me for many reasons, but most importantly, I require the back seat for my kid and I also take the car on road trips so it needed to be more comfortable.
4) I don't modify my cars, don't trust aftermarket claims, want the warranty intact, and really don't have the time to mod anyway.
5) If ordering a car, I would always go for the factory installed option rather than installing after delivery. Anytime someone wrenches on your car, the risk of something not getting together right is present. I follow the idea that the less anything is tampered with, the better.
6) Its different and not often selected option, that has to be worth something.
Drew
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07-29-2014, 04:39 AM
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Thanks Drew Marv and the rest. The reason I am interested in this is because when I looked around california for what was in inventory, I noticed that outside of the 50th there wasnt many if any X51s on the floors. I think the reason they are so rare is because outside of those who order them is because there is alot of ignorance about the option and the theory that the X51 is not worth the money for the amount of Ponies you get for the initial $17K price tag.
I am hoping to pull some of the curtains away from this so more can enjoy this worthwhile option. AND on the flip side if we can generate some more interest, I would like to get some dealers to take a chance and order some spec cars and have them on the floor. My Dealer Walters in Riverside Ca, really has some exciting colors (paint to sample)and options available on the floor. But no X51. Alot of dealers have several turbo S's but no X51s. Given now that:
some more of us know how good this power kit is now, more people can enjoy this wonderful option once you realize.
that is available (compared to the GT3)
you can negotiate the price,
it contains alot of goodies
Its WAY MORE than Just 3o ponies and I would love to see this on the dyno more than
once.
Again thanks for the info and keep em coming!!
I am hoping to pull some of the curtains away from this so more can enjoy this worthwhile option. AND on the flip side if we can generate some more interest, I would like to get some dealers to take a chance and order some spec cars and have them on the floor. My Dealer Walters in Riverside Ca, really has some exciting colors (paint to sample)and options available on the floor. But no X51. Alot of dealers have several turbo S's but no X51s. Given now that:
some more of us know how good this power kit is now, more people can enjoy this wonderful option once you realize.
that is available (compared to the GT3)
you can negotiate the price,
it contains alot of goodies
Its WAY MORE than Just 3o ponies and I would love to see this on the dyno more than
once.
Again thanks for the info and keep em coming!!
07-29-2014, 06:25 AM
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I traded a 991s with PDK for a 991 50th with PDK and Power Kit (it was an option here in the UK). I'm really pleased I did as although it's an expensive option I do notice it and I wanted the 50th to feel a little different to the 991s as well as look it. Two things I notice; firstly the torque curve is smoother and there isn't the peak in midrange that encouraged me to change up and secondly it just flys straight into the limiter such is the urgency at high revs. I don't do max revs very often but a few times now it's caught me out and just raced straight into the limiter. Feeling, sound, and experience just amazing. This engine just wants to rev and rev that bit more than standard (IMHO), it's very linear, and I love it's from smart engineering and old fashioned port polishing, rather than just a software tweak...
07-29-2014, 09:33 AM
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OldGuy:
Here a good thread from this past June, on your PowerKit topic:
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/8193...ial-order.html
Here a good thread from this past June, on your PowerKit topic:
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/8193...ial-order.html
07-29-2014, 09:51 AM
#11
Timely thread, this coming from the creator of the now 14 page x51 thread...
I'm looking hard at an X51 car right now. I'll be honest, there are a lot of 991S out there and I want mine to be a little more special. I used to be car-mod guy, I'm not any more but I love the concept of getting a power bump (albeit pricy) from the factory.
If I do get one, I'm going to take it to a drag strip to log some real world 1/4 miles. Then its strictly road course.
I'm looking hard at an X51 car right now. I'll be honest, there are a lot of 991S out there and I want mine to be a little more special. I used to be car-mod guy, I'm not any more but I love the concept of getting a power bump (albeit pricy) from the factory.
If I do get one, I'm going to take it to a drag strip to log some real world 1/4 miles. Then its strictly road course.
07-29-2014, 10:35 AM
#12
After speaking with my dealer, they usually have a max sticker to work with due to lease factors. The X51 pushes the 991 into poor lease territory. Other options are more desire able given the price constraint
Drew
Drew
07-29-2014, 11:55 AM
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Here's another thing I really like about the PowerKit option:
A THIRD RADIATOR!!!!!!
1) The car runs really cool. That's got to be a good thing going forward for the engine's logevity.
2) And how many "aftermarket power upgrade solutions" offer this? So guys/gals that are chipping their cars for more power, adding exhaust mods for more power, adding intake plenums for more power.....what are you doing to manage and mitigate the extra heat generated? Sure, you can buy the 3rd radiator option and have it installed, but really, how many are going this extra step??????
Something to consider.
A THIRD RADIATOR!!!!!!
1) The car runs really cool. That's got to be a good thing going forward for the engine's logevity.
2) And how many "aftermarket power upgrade solutions" offer this? So guys/gals that are chipping their cars for more power, adding exhaust mods for more power, adding intake plenums for more power.....what are you doing to manage and mitigate the extra heat generated? Sure, you can buy the 3rd radiator option and have it installed, but really, how many are going this extra step??????
Something to consider.
07-29-2014, 12:10 PM
#14
07-29-2014, 12:13 PM
#15
The other aspect that doesn't get enough mention... sport exhaust and sport chrono are included so really the effective cost of X51 is closer to $13,000.
Expense sure, but it is OEM, real hardware (not just "tuning") and includes warranty... and the third radiator which helps living in Central Texas and having plans for the track.
If I get I'm going to try and determine the real world difference in terms of power.
Expense sure, but it is OEM, real hardware (not just "tuning") and includes warranty... and the third radiator which helps living in Central Texas and having plans for the track.
If I get I'm going to try and determine the real world difference in terms of power.