R-comps compatible with PDCC?
07-28-2014, 11:30 AM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
R-comps compatible with PDCC?
I've been having an occasional issue with PDCC on the track where it declares a fault in certain high-G-loading situations. It happened numerous times in the Octopus at NJMP Thunderbolt, and once in the high-speed Turn 10 at Watkins Glen. When it happens, the car goes into a type of limp mode where Sport Plus is disabled until the car can be shut off and the ignition cycled. Then it clears. During this limp mode, though, the car's handling is dramatically different--it forces you to back off to 6/10ths or so until you can get into the pits.
I'm interested in eventually trying an R-comp on this car, but I'm concerned that the higher forces and strain on the chassis and suspension created by the higher grip of an R-comp will trigger this fault even more frequently. Anyone have experience running R-comps hard on a PDCC car?
I'm interested in eventually trying an R-comp on this car, but I'm concerned that the higher forces and strain on the chassis and suspension created by the higher grip of an R-comp will trigger this fault even more frequently. Anyone have experience running R-comps hard on a PDCC car?
07-28-2014, 06:49 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
No--but it's doing this after I had the "campaign" done for the update to the PDCC control module.
It's interesting--it feels like someone just threw an anchor out the window when the car kicks itself out of Sport Plus. Probably not as noticeable with street driving, but pretty dramatic on the track. You're zipping along at 9/10ths in Sport Plus, being smooth but really leaning on the car in braking, cornering and acceleration, and then the PDCC fault appears on the display and you're knocked out of Sport Plus. Immediately the car feels like molasses--much slower throttle response, slower steering response, and more body roll in corners. It actually feels clumsy compared to how it was just moments before, and it's a bit scary because you've developed a rhythm with the car at very high speed and then suddenly you're driving a different car. You're forced to readjust almost immediately to these different responses to your inputs, and lower limits of the car, which is alarming when you're flying around the track in close proximity to other cars.
It's interesting--it feels like someone just threw an anchor out the window when the car kicks itself out of Sport Plus. Probably not as noticeable with street driving, but pretty dramatic on the track. You're zipping along at 9/10ths in Sport Plus, being smooth but really leaning on the car in braking, cornering and acceleration, and then the PDCC fault appears on the display and you're knocked out of Sport Plus. Immediately the car feels like molasses--much slower throttle response, slower steering response, and more body roll in corners. It actually feels clumsy compared to how it was just moments before, and it's a bit scary because you've developed a rhythm with the car at very high speed and then suddenly you're driving a different car. You're forced to readjust almost immediately to these different responses to your inputs, and lower limits of the car, which is alarming when you're flying around the track in close proximity to other cars.
07-28-2014, 08:54 PM
#5
What do you consider high g loading? What readings do you have in your g meter? I have PDCC and after four track days I haven't had any faults although I may not be pushing my car as far as you are. I just did another day at Thompson and everything was fine. I also just got some new rims and I'm waiting for the R888s to be available in 305s which I'm hoping will be ready to go for my next track day so I can't speak to the Rs and PDCC just yet.
07-29-2014, 12:36 AM
#6
No--but it's doing this after I had the "campaign" done for the update to the PDCC control module.
It's interesting--it feels like someone just threw an anchor out the window when the car kicks itself out of Sport Plus. Probably not as noticeable with street driving, but pretty dramatic on the track. You're zipping along at 9/10ths in Sport Plus, being smooth but really leaning on the car in braking, cornering and acceleration, and then the PDCC fault appears on the display and you're knocked out of Sport Plus. Immediately the car feels like molasses--much slower throttle response, slower steering response, and more body roll in corners. It actually feels clumsy compared to how it was just moments before, and it's a bit scary because you've developed a rhythm with the car at very high speed and then suddenly you're driving a different car. You're forced to readjust almost immediately to these different responses to your inputs, and lower limits of the car, which is alarming when you're flying around the track in close proximity to other cars.
It's interesting--it feels like someone just threw an anchor out the window when the car kicks itself out of Sport Plus. Probably not as noticeable with street driving, but pretty dramatic on the track. You're zipping along at 9/10ths in Sport Plus, being smooth but really leaning on the car in braking, cornering and acceleration, and then the PDCC fault appears on the display and you're knocked out of Sport Plus. Immediately the car feels like molasses--much slower throttle response, slower steering response, and more body roll in corners. It actually feels clumsy compared to how it was just moments before, and it's a bit scary because you've developed a rhythm with the car at very high speed and then suddenly you're driving a different car. You're forced to readjust almost immediately to these different responses to your inputs, and lower limits of the car, which is alarming when you're flying around the track in close proximity to other cars.
With body roll, I suspect what happens is the PDCC hydraulics simply stop working. When that happens the car is left to rely on the anti-roll bars alone, which on a PDCC car are less stiff than non-PDCC. So more body roll.
Also going out of Sport Plus kicks the shock damping range down to Normal mode. Less responsive, more roll, more squat and dive.
I'm sure when you are driving on the street going from Normal to Sport Plus and back again its noticeable but no big deal. Out of the blue on the track though, yeah I bet its like hitting a wall of water!
If memory serves it seems like this happens under cornering combined with compressive loads, in layman's terms a dip, where you're able to take advantage of compression to corner harder than usual. If that is right then anything like R-comps that increases loading even more is bound to drive you right up the wall - hopefully only figuratively speaking!
07-29-2014, 11:51 AM
#7
Three Wheelin'
I've used MPSC+, r888, and hoosier r6. They all work great. I've gone through about 3 sets of r888 already. I have pdcc but not the sport suspension. This is on 19" wheels with a smaller overall diameter.
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07-29-2014, 01:23 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
What do you consider high g loading? What readings do you have in your g meter? I have PDCC and after four track days I haven't had any faults although I may not be pushing my car as far as you are. I just did another day at Thompson and everything was fine. I also just got some new rims and I'm waiting for the R888s to be available in 305s which I'm hoping will be ready to go for my next track day so I can't speak to the Rs and PDCC just yet.
That all makes sense. Sport Plus ramps up throttle response. The car still has the same hp to deliver but now it takes more pedal travel to get there, which makes the car feel slower.
With body roll, I suspect what happens is the PDCC hydraulics simply stop working. When that happens the car is left to rely on the anti-roll bars alone, which on a PDCC car are less stiff than non-PDCC. So more body roll.
Also going out of Sport Plus kicks the shock damping range down to Normal mode. Less responsive, more roll, more squat and dive.
I'm sure when you are driving on the street going from Normal to Sport Plus and back again its noticeable but no big deal. Out of the blue on the track though, yeah I bet its like hitting a wall of water!
With body roll, I suspect what happens is the PDCC hydraulics simply stop working. When that happens the car is left to rely on the anti-roll bars alone, which on a PDCC car are less stiff than non-PDCC. So more body roll.
Also going out of Sport Plus kicks the shock damping range down to Normal mode. Less responsive, more roll, more squat and dive.
I'm sure when you are driving on the street going from Normal to Sport Plus and back again its noticeable but no big deal. Out of the blue on the track though, yeah I bet its like hitting a wall of water!
Good info. I'm running 255/35-19 and 305/30-19 Yoko AD08Rs, and they've done quite well. But I'm curious about R-comps. What exact sizes did you use in the MPSC+ and R6?
08-09-2014, 01:59 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
What do you consider high g loading? What readings do you have in your g meter? I have PDCC and after four track days I haven't had any faults although I may not be pushing my car as far as you are. I just did another day at Thompson and everything was fine. I also just got some new rims and I'm waiting for the R888s to be available in 305s which I'm hoping will be ready to go for my next track day so I can't speak to the Rs and PDCC just yet.
Also impressed with the 1.32G for peak braking--very impressive for a street car on street tires. Now if we can just get this PDCC fault thing figured out...
08-09-2014, 03:59 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
I'd be cautious about this, if the car drops out of sport plus while cornering with extreme G loads it could result in a serious loss of control as you will get an unexpected weight transfer as the loaded suspension components re-load ...
08-09-2014, 09:52 PM
#13
Just checked my peak-G meter in the car, and the readings are higher than I would have expected. Another board member mentioned in another PDCC fault thread that he had 1.2G peak readings after a DE day, with no problems. Maybe I'm having issues because of higher peak-G loading--I've apparently hit 1.59G in right-hand turns (higher than the 1.30G for left-hand turns because I'm running clockwise tracks, with predominantly right-handers). The 1.59G must be from T2 or the carousel after the busstop at Watkins Glen--that or the techs are having fun with the car when it's in for service. Also impressed with the 1.32G for peak braking--very impressive for a street car on street tires. Now if we can just get this PDCC fault thing figured out...
Also impressed with the 1.32G for peak braking--very impressive for a street car on street tires. Now if we can just get this PDCC fault thing figured out...