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Old 01-31-2013, 07:25 PM   #1
991guy
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Default Where are the Base 991 manual shift reviews??

Hi all, my first post. I just got a new 991 base car, (my fifth 911) well, it has a few things, Sport Chrono, PASM, Torque Vectoring, 20" wheels among others things, but there are virtually no reviews of the 3.4 or for that matter manual shift models..

Porsche tells me for every 10 "S" models sold, the are 8 "base" models sold, and the transmissions are almost at 50%/50% sold, but almost no manual shifts reviewed.

I feel like the auto mags are ignoring my car!!! I'd love to see a comparo between the S and base...

Any comments?

Best!
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:06 PM   #2
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Not sure how accurate this is but it says 78% of 997s sold globally were PDK. With that said, I feel your pain. I have been shopping for a 3.4 991 and have found virtually no reviews of it. Except one of car and driver comparing it to the 981s, which I am sure you have seen if not it is posted below as well.

http://rumors.automobilemag.com/pors...#axzz2JbYy3wyX


I would love to hear your personal review! Help me out!
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:15 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 991guy View Post
Hi all, my first post. I just got a new 991 base car, (my fifth 911) well, it has a few things, Sport Chrono, PASM, Torque Vectoring, 20" wheels among others things, but there are virtually no reviews of the 3.4 or for that matter manual shift models..

Porsche tells me for every 10 "S" models sold, the are 8 "base" models sold, and the transmissions are almost at 50%/50% sold, but almost no manual shifts reviewed.

I feel like the auto mags are ignoring my car!!! I'd love to see a comparo between the S and base...

Any comments?

Best!
I'm waiting for some parts before returning to my dealer for a warranty issue. I've already been asked to compare the base model to my S, especially the full-analog suspension. I'll be posting that by mid-February.

Of course, you already have yours, so it will just be a chance to see if you agree with me.

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Old 01-31-2013, 09:38 PM   #4
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Agreed, the press seems to mostly have skipped commenting on Base models as well as that MT, other than one (or 2?) reviews that briefly comment that the Base/MT may be the more fun combo.

That's where I ended up - MT for fun (PDK was too clinical for me, certainly with the understanding that yes, it can shift more perfectly and more quickly than I can ), Base because it's great for everything I'm doing. I'm finding myself over the speed limit in no time, and whether that is a fraction of a second more than the S ends up being fairly irrelevant. Heck, the PDK would make more of a difference in pure launch time, but just wasn't my bag.

Hmm, not that that helps with finding reviews, but you're not alone, and I'm having a ton of fun in mine (weather permitting at the moment). These are just awesome cars. Oh, and take my comments with the grain of salt that I just got mine a week and a half ago so I can't freely rev it yet... But I am loving it, just all around great from the looks to performance to interior. I had a 944 years back which was a blast to drive, and the 991 C2 is light years ahead in everything but front/back weight distribution, which just provides a different feel.
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:39 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carsrmyvice View Post
Not sure how accurate this is but it says 78% of 997s sold globally were PDK. With that said, I feel your pain. I have been shopping for a 3.4 991 and have found virtually no reviews of it. Except one of car and driver comparing it to the 981s, which I am sure you have seen if not it is posted below as well.

http://rumors.automobilemag.com/pors...#axzz2JbYy3wyX

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6N3GEahwOrI

I would love to hear your personal review! Help me out!
Thanks for this. Yes, I've seen this vid and thats about it. The 78% number was probably created because when the 991 launched, it only was offered in PDK for the first 4-5 months (Boxster too). Now the manual is available, and that % is slowly heading towards 50%.

My dealer only orders one PDK for every three manuals. In New England, people like to shift more I guess and the PDK's are slow movers, not to mention the 4K up charge. I like to shift that why I have a manual.... Who knows what the future holds.... I do know that only 8% of the cars sold in the US are manual...

Whatever that means
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simsgw View Post
I'm waiting for some parts before returning to my dealer for a warranty issue. I've already been asked to compare the base model to my S, especially the full-analog suspension. I'll be posting that by mid-February.

Of course, you already have yours, so it will just be a chance to see if you agree with me.

Gary
That's great, I certainly look forward to seeing how you think they compare!
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:15 PM   #7
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I drove a base, almost no-option non-PASM 991 with a manual recently, and I was pleasantly surprised. It is the first and only 991 I have driven, and with all of the talk of the new car being a cushy GT with no feel, I was expecting something very different (which a PASM car with Power Steering Plus probably is). Felt like about the same amount of starch in the suspension as my Spyder, and I didn't mind the steering at all. Other than a startling lack of torque at lower RPMs once out of 1st gear, I liked it quite a bit.

As to why we are not seeing professional reviews, I suspect Porsche is not supplying 'base' press cars, and instead pushing $100k+ models. By the look of local dealer inventory and inbound vehicles, it seems to be working.
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Smithee View Post
I drove a base, almost no-option non-PASM 991 with a manual recently, and I was pleasantly surprised. It is the first and only 991 I have driven, and with all of the talk of the new car being a cushy GT with no feel, I was expecting something very different (which a PASM car with Power Steering Plus probably is). Felt like about the same amount of starch in the suspension as my Spyder, and I didn't mind the steering at all. Other than a startling lack of torque at lower RPMs once out of 1st gear, I liked it quite a bit.

As to why we are not seeing professional reviews, I suspect Porsche is not supplying 'base' press cars, and instead pushing $100k+ models. By the look of local dealer inventory and inbound vehicles, it seems to be working.
Seems to depend on the dealer. I have noticed Auto Gallery has a lot of 3.4's. Mind you, they sell high-end option lists on those 3.4's. Burmester, natural leather, lots of cabs...

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Old 01-31-2013, 10:51 PM   #9
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I had a 2006 Base and was itching for an S so I traded in 2008 for a dark blue S model. And while I will acknowledge it "was" a bit faster, we're talking a 3%-5% if that. You really need to get the S on track against the base for it really show the differences in accel and handling. My 2006 base had PASM and 19' wheels so that was some what of an equalizer.

IMHO, a new "S" simply isn't worth $15,000 more than a base Carrera. My car has PASM, Sport Chrono, Torque Vectoring and 20" wheels. And it was still $8K-$15K less than most "S" cars I looked at. I have no fancy leather or Bose or 14 way electric seats. I put my money into what I thought was the "meat and potatoes" of the car. I learned a few cars ago that fancy options depreciate in a hurry.

And besides, its not exactly like these base cars are stripped either.. :-)

Last edited by 991guy; 01-31-2013 at 11:08 PM.
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Old 02-17-2013, 02:13 PM   #10
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http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ed-test-review
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:11 PM   #11
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Chris Harris armed with the same speculation and questions of the OP, wrung out a very sparsely equipped 991 7 speed about 6 months ago in Excellence. He had sold his 997 S to get a non-S, which he found to be more his idea of a 911 sweet spot- so wanted to see if it still would hit him that way. He did not find the same with the 991, due to the performance distance from the 991S- due to a mix of things, torque and tires being the obvious ones.

To me the 991 platform is so good the differences are all marginal. I like the options route to matching marginal cost to personal value.
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Old 02-17-2013, 04:52 PM   #12
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This is from evo:

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evoc...al_review.html

Quote:
Car Reviews: evo Car Reviews
Porsche 911 Carrera manual review

So far, the fourth all-new Porsche 911, the 991, has failed to sweep all before it. Maybe the basic 3.4-litre Carrera with a manual gearbox can recapture the old magic

By David Vivian

April 2012

What is it?

The junior and, on paper, purest member of the new Porsche 911 family. Question is, how many boxes do you tick on the extensive options list to create the optimum driving experience?

Technical highlights?

With the 991, Porsche has made the 911 longer and, now, mostly from aluminium. So it’s lighter, but the engines are slightly more powerful. It has a lower centre of gravity and a broader front track. And, perhaps, most significantly of all, it’s been designed to extract full value from all the sexy technology that forms the backbone of the options list. It isn’t that Porsche is particularly mean with its standard equipment these days, more the emergence of a carefully nurtured perception that the latest 911 isn’t the complete ticket without the supporting (extra cost) technology – the idea that dynamic engine mounts, torque vectoring, PASM, PDCC et al are as much part of Porsche’s core DNA as the 911 itself and you only get the Big Picture if you plug them all together.

Maybe so. Trouble is, apart from stumping up ú71,449 for a notional zero option 3.4 manual, there’s no way of telling if our view that the clearest window on the true nature of a new car is to start at the bottom – and that the sweetest 911 is usually a simple one - still holds water. The nearest Porsche GB’s Press fleet gets to slummin’ it in the lower reaches of the 911 range is this Guard’s Red 3.4 manual additionally equipped with 20-inch alloys, ceramic brakes, PASM adaptive damping with 20mm lower sports chassis, Porsche Torque Vectoring teamed with a mechanical limited slip diff, the Sport Chrono Package (which includes the dynamic engine mounts), a sports exhaust system and sports seats. But, perhaps crucially, no Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC) active anti-roll system that stymied the Carrera S’s chances of victory in issue 168’s definitive group test. The thick end of ú86k is rather a long way from where we started, but who’s to say Porsche hasn’t put together the optimum (pre-GT3/RS/Turbo) 991 package in this car? I was sceptical before I drove it, but now I can’t honestly think of anything I’d leave out. Guess that’s the hook.

What’s it like to drive?

Fundamentally, you want your 911 to go, steer, grip and stop in a properly stimulating manner. And in three out of four of these disciplines, Porsche GB’s idea of an entry-level 3.4, manual 991 is simply a better car than the base level 997 it replaces. The acoustically-enhanced soundtrack is gruffer and more urgent, roll-on pace (massaged by an almost turbo-like kick in the power deliver at 4500rpm) slightly swifter, the front-end grip and conviction generated by the wider track notably stronger and the stoppers marginally more incredible. The 991 throws in some extras, too: a more comfortable ride, less road roar, better cruising refinement and a properly designed, exceptionally well built and finished cabin.

All right, the electric steering only just wings it. Perhaps think of it as an MP3 version of the 997’s hydraulic set up. It gives the impression of having been tailored to snap-fit into the broader repertoire of the new car with its more nailed and composed front end and a torque vectoring system you can actually feel pointing you towards the apex when you're pushing on and haven’t turned the stability and traction programmes off. But it is accurate and it does have a helpful degree of feedback – just not as much or as textured in nature as a 997 GT3’s. It all adds to the hunch that the 911 has, once again, been ‘normalised’ for a more conventional definition of ‘excellence’; that its iconoclastic past is no longer seen as being so relevant.

How does it compare?

So which Carrera, plain or S? Driving the 3.4 manual straight after a go in a ‘showhome-spec’ 3.8-litre Carrera S with PDK, PDCC and every other conceivable extra felt like a more direct path to whatever flavour of 911-ness the 991 is seeking to purvey, the mantra ‘less is more’ almost materialising before my very eyes as I gripped a steering wheel that was just that, pure and simple – no buttons at all. Although 50bhp down on the Carrera S, you don’t feel short-changed in the 3.4. And even if the 7-speed ‘box isn’t the slickest ever to grace a 911, it does provide another layer of rewarding interaction. In a 911, that can only be a good thing.

Anything else I should know?

It’s early days for the 991, of course, and any final judgement should be deferred until more power and less weight is introduced to the mix. In the meantime, the 3.4 manual Carrera perhaps marks the sweet spot in the initial line up.

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Old 02-20-2013, 03:32 PM   #13
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^^ that's a very nice review jasonintoronto.

I found this one on YouTube. It's a base Carrera 3.4 + manual 'box.


Two problems though:

- It's a Cabriolet (not really a problem but.. you know!)

- He is not The Monkey.
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Old 02-20-2013, 04:29 PM   #14
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Interesting to compare specs in the Car and Driver review linked above with their 2005 base 997 test:

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...carrera-page-2

The 991 is a tick slower to 60, 100, and the 1/4 mile, has longer braking distance by a few feet, only 1 MPG better on the highway (same in the city), and .01g better on the skidpad.

With a base price $13k higher.

When some of us come away disappointed with the 991, this is why (note C&D's 991 test car carried a $100k MSRP, so it likely had all performance options, vs. the 997 which was truly a base car with 18" wheels, no PASM or PCCB, etc., so the price delta is a huge 30%).

Also explains why I felt the 991 lacking in low-end torque - while peak is up 14 lb/ft over both my 2005 997 and Spyder, it is at 1,350 RPM higher than in the 2005 997 (only 850 RPM higher than the similar 3.4 in the Spyder, but as that car weighs 10% less, it too feels torquier - and is quicker per C&D).
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Old 02-20-2013, 05:22 PM   #15
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Personally, the most appealing 991 for me at the moment is a base 3.4L car in manual with conventional springs and none of the acronyms. I am awaiting launch of the Targa which I think is going to be a real hit if they get it right. Loaded 3.8L cars with PDK and all the acronyms are certainly nice but the pricing is simply nutty relative to Cayman S and depreciation will be staggering.
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Old 02-20-2013, 05:22 PM
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