Jason @ Paragon Products

Here's the listing for the front:
http://www.paragon-products.com/U492...u4920-rs29.htm

and rear:
http://www.paragon-products.com/U491...u4918-rs29.htm

and all the new RSC 1 applications for PCCB
http://www.paragon-products.com/Sear...sp?Search=rsc1

None of these pads are currently in the US at this point and I think Pagid is still looking for feedback from us as to potential demand for these part numbers to make sure we stock sufficiently.

John's 991

Hi Jason, I will switch to them when the come out. I'm just one man, but will likely need one to two sets a year.

MayorAdamWest

Reviving an old thread, but could someone post pics of changing the pads. Not sure why they changed it in the 991 so you can't just pull them out of the back without removing the caliper.

John's 991

Shoot, I just changed them for a second time last weekend but did not take pics, sorry. Roughly from memory:

Remove wheel then remove caliper. It's two bolts (torx 55 I think). The bolts are on the rear of the caliper and easy to see. Nothing else has to come off to get the calipers off the car.

I use a spreader to push the pistons back into the calipers. Then I remove the pads

The brake pad sensor is a bit of a nuisance to remove so i just leave them off once I got them off the first time. But there is a little brass clip that holds the sensor in. If you slide the sensor forward (away from the backing plate) and not up it come out.

After that, just put in the new pads, and reassemble. As discussed in a separate thread, Porsche recommends new caliper bolts, but I doubt they are necessary.

After that I bleed the calipers, just remember to bleed both sides and keep the reservoir full, and put the wheel back.

If you have done brakes before it is easy.

MayorAdamWest

Thanks, I'll take a look tomorrow to see if I can see the bolts. I was planning on changing the pads for track events, about once per month. Hopefully it's easy enough that its not annoying.

John's 991

If you don't have to mess with the pad wear sensors or bleed your brakes every time it's quick and easy. Probably about an hour.

The two bolts on each caliper are easy to find.

MayorAdamWest

Changed the pads tonight. The rears are very annoying. Did you sensor from the bracket that holds it to the brake line? That seems to be the thing preventing it from moving, which makes the changing annoying. Luckily, I had another person helping, and by the last wheel, we were able to change it in 17 minutes. It took about 2 hours to do all 4, but I expect that to be closer to 75 minutes next time, since I know what I'm doing, and the sensors are no longer in the pads.

John's 991

Sounds like we had about the same experience. The sensors are a nuisance. I left them attached to the car, but disconnected from the pads. I have never had an error light by doing that. I just used a piece of wire to keep it out of the way.

Interestingly when the dealer installed new tires they did not even notice.

Btw, how are your rotors? Mine rumble when I brake and I am planning on replacing them when I install Pagid pads next time.

MayorAdamWest

Rotors seem ok, but the tires can't keep up with the brakes, at least on my bedding drive tonight. I'm planning on installing girodisc or similar when I burn through this set of pagid rs29s. It'd be nice if there were more pad and rotor options. Now just waiting on the spacers to see if I can run the r888s this weekend, which should also help a lot in braking.

Carrera GT

I'd suggest the following for a diy pad swap:

Protect the car's paint, especially around the hood/fender and the caliper and wheel paint. Remember that brake fluid is corrosive and will eat through clear coat, so don't risk any drips or splashes, especially when extracting and filling the reservoir.

Work clean. Brake systems cannot withstand contamination by oil, grease and moisture. Get some "green" brake clean spray and use it sparingly and with ample ventilation. Some brake cleaner fluids are flammable. They're basically dry-cleaning fluid, so have a fire extinguisher at the ready any time you're working on a car.

Use an oversized drip tray. Auto parts shops sell very cheap metal oil drip trays (I have one that's about four foot by three.) Saves a lot of clean-up.

Always extract fluid from the reservoir and fill with fresh stuff.
Always bleed through plenty of fluid starting with the nearest caliper and working to the far, rear caliper.
Bleeding all the calipers will remove most of the worst fluid, which has experienced the worst heat, right at the back of the pad.
Extracting the reservoir will avoid pumping old brake fluid through the system (and through the ABS pump.)

Some brake manufacturers recommend swapping pads or rotors, but not both at once, if possible. Always check rotors for condition (cracks, thickness, glazing.) Doing one or the other can help with bedding and pedal feel, especially release (unless there's another factor like beveled pads, which plagues the 997.2 RS.)

Glazed or noisy rotors can be cleaned with no metallic paper (sandpaper) specifically "garnet" paper. 3M sells these in convenient roloc discs. A battery hand drill and a breathing mask and some patience will scour the rotor and remove most contaminants, but not always the pad material (which can be as hard as tool steel.)

For wear sensors, try some WD40 or any good penetrating lube solvent. I'd suggest using the nozzle tube to keep the spray contained to the surfaces of the sensor and perhaps hold up a piece of paper as a backing guard to avoid leaving lube where there shouldn't be any. Some careful tapping can help free them from the pad and be reusable, otherwise, they're a wear item. If the warning is already in the dash, one or more sensors is already broken and must be discarded.

It might seem like a convenient expediency to go with reinstalling the wear sensors and the world has gotten along without them for a century or so, but I'd say take the time, be patient, learn to do the whole job and do it properly. Unless it's a dedicated track car, there's no reason to be running on the street without the wear sensors, plus, if you get a sticky caliper and it burns through an inside pad, you can find yourself in trouble with no warning.

Plan ahead for holding the caliper if there's going to be a rotor swap. Don't risk any twisting or bending of the flexible brake line. Consider upgrading that line to a braided steel line "while you're there." A metal coat-hanger is the industry standard tool for holding a caliper to keep its weight off the flexible brake line.

Stand clear of brake dust, use a mask, have ventilation. Don't do brakes in a closed home garage. Use nitrile gloves. Anticipate clean-up, be ready for the mess. Pads are heavy and sharp -- a plastic bag won't suffice. Recycle. This is not the old toxic days, but brake fluid and brake pads are still nasty and don't go in the land fill.

As others have noted, the "first time" can take most of a day and all this rigamarole I've suggested might seem to only add to the time sink. I can only suggest that once you've done a few brake jobs, you get into a groove and aside from getting the car off the ground and other variables, the actual pad swap can be fast, even with fixed bridge calipers.

Of course planning and preparation make the work go quickly: have all the tools and sockets ready, check for unusual Torx sizes, have a printout of the torque specs and be sure you can get the torque wrench directly on each bolt.

I'd recommend replacing the caliper bolts. If that's expensive overkill, some just carefully clean the wheel carrier threads (compressed air) and the bolt threads, then use an anti sieze (sparingly) on the bolt threads. Don't over torque.

I suggest one of these Motiv Powerbleeders:
http://motiveproducts.3dcartstores.c...er-_p_103.html


I've used one for a decade, hundreds of times, dozens of cars. A great time saver and a tidy way to work around newer cars.

MayorAdamWest

You don't *need* to bleed the brakes to change them. You can, but it's not necessary. I agree about the have something to hold the caliper, especially the front ones, where the brake line is metal. We were using a paint can, which is just about the perfect height. If you keep your car clean, there isn't much brake dust to deal with.

Carrera GT

Well, no maintenance is by definition "necessary," but once you have the vehicle being serviced for pads, that is the timing to know the pads have been at their thinnest (communicating the most heat to the backing plate, to the piston and directly to the fluid.)

Evacuating the reservoir is something done once or twice per season. Ish. I'd also recommend at least one annual fluid flush by the dealer with the service tool to exercise the ABS to flush its contents. This goes to protecting seals and avoiding long term reliability gremlins.

I'd say it's bordering on mandatory to bleed out the fluid from the calipers. This is the fluid that has suffered the most heat. It's the stuff that has boiled. Using the pedal and speed bleeders will help with circulating the crap fluid out of the pistons, but just pushing it through with a powerbleeder seems to be entirely effective.

If you're not bleeding the fluid, at least use some temp tags or indicator paint to see if the calipers (especially the rears) are exceeding the fluid specs.

The pedal feel, modulation and release is worth the extra monkey work.

shizzle

I ordered the new Brembo replacement rotors from the 991S. They should be arriving in two weeks. They're slotted, and at 10mm in diameter up front and 20mm in the rear, while still working with the OEM calipers. I'm hoping these rotors with the RS29 and Castrol SRF will give a good boost in heat capacity for the track.

Carrera GT

SRF is a waste of money and may not even be suited to the seals in the 991. You might get a Porsche dealer to confirm it's acceptable, but it's still a total waste of money. Ate or Motul are above the limits of the rest of the system. I run boring, old Ate in an RS 3.8 running Hoosiers at decent pace with zero problems.

I'm curious about the Brembo rotors. Last I checked, no OEM/aftermarket rotors were the correct thickness for the 991 calipers. I'm keen to upgrade to slotted rotors from PFC, Brembo, Stoptech or equivalent. The factory pads are the first weak link. Plus braided flex lines. A little oversized with spacers for the calipers would be fine, but right now, I don't think the brakes need anything except light, durable rotors. The factory rotors are giants, which I think is mostly related to the rears being over-engineered for PSM and PTV.

Cogito_Ergo_Zoom

Hi, can you share the details on the discs..from Suncoast?