“Transmission failure” on night of delivery for 991S PDK
02-28-2012, 08:54 PM
#61
Three Wheelin'
Here are two quick stories that happened to me. Bought a brand new Ferrari. Drove 32 miles. Transmission would not shift into any gear. Dealer flatbeds the car back to the dealership. A week later I pick up the car and drive 32 miles home. Transmission would not shift into any gear again. This happened one more time. Dealer apologizes. Returns all my money including sale's tax. Then puts me in the front of the order line and orders me a new Ferrari. It wasn't Ferrari's policy to give me all my money back and order me a new car. The dealer stepped up and did the right thing. I've been his customer ever since.
Last story. I invoked the Lemon Law against Toyota in California. Took just one phone call. Less than one week later I received a phone call asking me if I wanted all my money returned or another new car. I took the new car.
Last story. I invoked the Lemon Law against Toyota in California. Took just one phone call. Less than one week later I received a phone call asking me if I wanted all my money returned or another new car. I took the new car.
02-28-2012, 09:41 PM
#62
Pro
UDPride
Long post......you need to lighten up. Champion Porsche and Porsche will resolve the problem. You must be a lawyer!
Life is too short to post a rant like this. Let's just see how it gets resolved.
Long post......you need to lighten up. Champion Porsche and Porsche will resolve the problem. You must be a lawyer!
Life is too short to post a rant like this. Let's just see how it gets resolved.
02-28-2012, 09:43 PM
#63
Easy to tell who on here has never applied a wrench to car. It's a transmission not neurosurgery.
Champion has an excellent service department many of whom have been on their race teams, so replacing a tranny would be no problem.
Hope you have many miles of problem free driving.
Champion has an excellent service department many of whom have been on their race teams, so replacing a tranny would be no problem.
Hope you have many miles of problem free driving.
02-28-2012, 10:01 PM
#64
Drifting
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Bastrop By God Texas
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A good friend of mine got the first new 650i in Hpuston a couple of months ago. He just got it back after having the entire motor replaced. It threw a rod the second week.
I'd rather deal with a mechanical issue than an electrical one any day.
My wife had a LX470 with an electrical gremlin that never was resolved. Lexus bought it back from us after the car spent 5 of its first 9 months in their shop.
Beautiful car. It sounds like Porsche is doing everything right. Get it back and enjoy the hell out of it.
I'd rather deal with a mechanical issue than an electrical one any day.
My wife had a LX470 with an electrical gremlin that never was resolved. Lexus bought it back from us after the car spent 5 of its first 9 months in their shop.
Beautiful car. It sounds like Porsche is doing everything right. Get it back and enjoy the hell out of it.
02-28-2012, 10:29 PM
#65
Very weird for such a failure as it is the same PDK as the 997.2 has and has been around already for 3 years. I would not get too worried until you find out what the issue is. It could be just a glitch in the computer or the fluid level was not set high enough at the factory. The PDK transmission has a lot of sensor monitoring, so it is not unusual for the car to shut down as you experienced for even a minor fault; they are just not very common. BTW, Nissan GTRs has similar quirks with their auto clutch gearbox. Maybe it is just an omen trying to tell you that you should have waited for the 7sp manual?
02-28-2012, 10:54 PM
#66
Race Director
Here are two quick stories that happened to me. Bought a brand new Ferrari. Drove 32 miles. Transmission would not shift into any gear. Dealer flatbeds the car back to the dealership. A week later I pick up the car and drive 32 miles home. Transmission would not shift into any gear again. This happened one more time. Dealer apologizes. Returns all my money including sale's tax. Then puts me in the front of the order line and orders me a new Ferrari. It wasn't Ferrari's policy to give me all my money back and order me a new car. The dealer stepped up and did the right thing. I've been his customer ever since.
Last story. I invoked the Lemon Law against Toyota in California. Took just one phone call. Less than one week later I received a phone call asking me if I wanted all my money returned or another new car. I took the new car.
Last story. I invoked the Lemon Law against Toyota in California. Took just one phone call. Less than one week later I received a phone call asking me if I wanted all my money returned or another new car. I took the new car.
One time thing thats repaired quickly and without issue, maybe a porsche fleece and baseball cap.
02-28-2012, 10:56 PM
#67
Rennlist Member
$hit happens, not end of world - it sucks but they are fixing it as per warranty agreement.
02-29-2012, 12:27 AM
#68
Thinking outside da' bun...
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Who's to say the problem begins and ends with the transmission? Who made this determination? Did they inspect all other parts and components of the car? And if it is the PDK, whos certain it will not happen again? Have they already disassembled the original PDK and found the exact point of failure, diagnosed a reason for that failure, and determined a new tranny will not fail in the same way?
This isnt lawyer speak, this is common 10th grade horse sense. And hey, they might have perfectly good answers to all of these questions and if so, perhaps theres no need for worry. But that doesnt mean those questions dont get asked and arent answered.
Its Porsche's job to fix the problem as cheaply as possible and hide the failure as swiftly as possible from the ether of the public domain. Its the owner's job to stand firm as well and fight for their own rights in being delivered a vehicle in a manner not unlike all other deliveries, without any further baggage or apprehension. Somewhere in between may lie the arbitrating consensus.
As everyone said, cars are complicated. One screwed up piece tends to screw up other pieces. Or, pieces that end in catastrophic failure were oftentimes not the weak link in the breaking point, but merely the byproduct of another less obvious failure that led to a far more obvious fustercluck. Engines, driveshafts, trannies, suspensions, transaxles, ball joints, bushings, on and on. When things fail, other things around them tend to suffer as well. That may NOT be the case here, but we know in a car without a PDK that needed swapped, the question isnt even asked.
What would have happened if this exact same car's PDK would have **** the bed 5 miles prior while it was still on the dealer's lot as an unsold car? Would Porsche have replaced the tranny and still offered it as an identical brand new car like the others? Would the tranny serial numbers still match the body? Would Porsche have EVEN DISCLOSED that the tranny had been replaced to a prospective tirekicker on the lot?
And suppose they DID disclose it, wouldn't you as a buyer expect a financial consideration for buying a car on their lot with a replaced tranny, when they have five just like it parked next to it that dont carry such a story?
And if they DIDNT disclose it and you found out later, would you have been perfectly fine with it, or aggravated about the dealership not disclosing the replaced transmission?
So the difference in two miles that the owner drove doesnt really change how I feel the dealership would handle this car's barfed PDK. Whatever their protocol would have been 2 miles prior, is the posture I would at the very LEAST expect here. And I cannot see how the dealership or PCNA could argue that selling a brand new unsold 911 with a replaced PDK wouldnt have compromised the selling price of the vehicle. I know I sure wouldnt buy it. Id just buy the 911 parked next to it without the baggage.
What about re-sale value? Do you believe disclosing to buyers 2-3 years from now that the PDK croaked 2 miles from delivery and was replaced will have zero impact on your ability to re-sell against other Porsches of the same make and model that didn't have their PDK replaced? If Im the buyer, why would I want to buy your used 911 when theres 100 others just like it that doesnt come with the same baggage?
I never suggested demanding a new car, but I did suggest several options that put the onus on PCNA and the dealership to show good faith and make an extraordinary effort for an extraordinary circumstance -- each option contingent upon what Porsche responds with. I consider your new 25-mile car ****ting the bed 2 miles down the road from the dealership an extraordinary situation. If I bought a new $300,000 Bentley and the same thing happened, my response would be just as different than if I had spent $13,000 for a Daewoo. With higher price comes higher expectations.
Ive heard good things about Champion. But this is their opportunity to demonstrate it to you personally.
All too often consumers give up their leverage when it is completely unnecessary. I never suggested Porsche give you free car or pay your child's college education. But a replacement car isnt a free car. Its simply a different car. But PCNA needs to man up, put on their big girl pants, and do what a premier company is supposed to do.
Average companies just do what they HAVE to do. Great companies always EXCEED expectations. Thats why you spend $100,000 on a car and not $10,000. Someone at PCNA should be saying:
"We are embarrassed by this situation and are deeply regretful of the circumstances surrounding your new vehicle delivery. We pride ourselves on achieving excellence in everything we do and part of that is making sure our cars are delivered as our factory intended and without catastrophic failure. Needless to say our goal is to make sure this doesn't happen again, to you or to any other Porsche owner. While we examine your transmission and do an internal investigation to find the cause of failure, we're prepared to re-earn your trust in our cars by offering ___________. We sincerely appreciate your commitment to Porsche, and this accommodation on our part is our way of re-affirming our commitment to you. We realize there are many sports car companies to choose from and we're not oblivious to the reality that you could have gone elsewhere to buy your new vehicle. At Porsche, we've always expected just a little bit more, and this presents us with an unfortunate -- albeit perfect -- opportunity to demonstrate that very thread that exists within our company.
Most sincerely and respectfully,
PCNA
Part of spending $100,000 on a car is being treated like a $100,000 customer. If we all wanted to just live by the basic requirements and have our buying experience treated like buying a toaster, we'd drive Chevrolets.
A customer lost is always exponentially more expensive. The best of service companies realize that fixing a problem in a world class way with a customer is actually better than if there had never been a problem at all. Its an opportunity to blow a customer away with service and expectation. You dont get to do that very often when things are humming along. You quickly learn about the culture of companies when things hit the fan.
Ive provided consulting work in many industries to improve their service departments and relationships with customers, and the ones that get it realize problems arent things to hide but opportunities to exploit.
Lets see if PCNA sees it the same way I do.
Ive said enough.
This isnt lawyer speak, this is common 10th grade horse sense. And hey, they might have perfectly good answers to all of these questions and if so, perhaps theres no need for worry. But that doesnt mean those questions dont get asked and arent answered.
Its Porsche's job to fix the problem as cheaply as possible and hide the failure as swiftly as possible from the ether of the public domain. Its the owner's job to stand firm as well and fight for their own rights in being delivered a vehicle in a manner not unlike all other deliveries, without any further baggage or apprehension. Somewhere in between may lie the arbitrating consensus.
As everyone said, cars are complicated. One screwed up piece tends to screw up other pieces. Or, pieces that end in catastrophic failure were oftentimes not the weak link in the breaking point, but merely the byproduct of another less obvious failure that led to a far more obvious fustercluck. Engines, driveshafts, trannies, suspensions, transaxles, ball joints, bushings, on and on. When things fail, other things around them tend to suffer as well. That may NOT be the case here, but we know in a car without a PDK that needed swapped, the question isnt even asked.
What would have happened if this exact same car's PDK would have **** the bed 5 miles prior while it was still on the dealer's lot as an unsold car? Would Porsche have replaced the tranny and still offered it as an identical brand new car like the others? Would the tranny serial numbers still match the body? Would Porsche have EVEN DISCLOSED that the tranny had been replaced to a prospective tirekicker on the lot?
And suppose they DID disclose it, wouldn't you as a buyer expect a financial consideration for buying a car on their lot with a replaced tranny, when they have five just like it parked next to it that dont carry such a story?
And if they DIDNT disclose it and you found out later, would you have been perfectly fine with it, or aggravated about the dealership not disclosing the replaced transmission?
So the difference in two miles that the owner drove doesnt really change how I feel the dealership would handle this car's barfed PDK. Whatever their protocol would have been 2 miles prior, is the posture I would at the very LEAST expect here. And I cannot see how the dealership or PCNA could argue that selling a brand new unsold 911 with a replaced PDK wouldnt have compromised the selling price of the vehicle. I know I sure wouldnt buy it. Id just buy the 911 parked next to it without the baggage.
What about re-sale value? Do you believe disclosing to buyers 2-3 years from now that the PDK croaked 2 miles from delivery and was replaced will have zero impact on your ability to re-sell against other Porsches of the same make and model that didn't have their PDK replaced? If Im the buyer, why would I want to buy your used 911 when theres 100 others just like it that doesnt come with the same baggage?
I never suggested demanding a new car, but I did suggest several options that put the onus on PCNA and the dealership to show good faith and make an extraordinary effort for an extraordinary circumstance -- each option contingent upon what Porsche responds with. I consider your new 25-mile car ****ting the bed 2 miles down the road from the dealership an extraordinary situation. If I bought a new $300,000 Bentley and the same thing happened, my response would be just as different than if I had spent $13,000 for a Daewoo. With higher price comes higher expectations.
Ive heard good things about Champion. But this is their opportunity to demonstrate it to you personally.
All too often consumers give up their leverage when it is completely unnecessary. I never suggested Porsche give you free car or pay your child's college education. But a replacement car isnt a free car. Its simply a different car. But PCNA needs to man up, put on their big girl pants, and do what a premier company is supposed to do.
Average companies just do what they HAVE to do. Great companies always EXCEED expectations. Thats why you spend $100,000 on a car and not $10,000. Someone at PCNA should be saying:
"We are embarrassed by this situation and are deeply regretful of the circumstances surrounding your new vehicle delivery. We pride ourselves on achieving excellence in everything we do and part of that is making sure our cars are delivered as our factory intended and without catastrophic failure. Needless to say our goal is to make sure this doesn't happen again, to you or to any other Porsche owner. While we examine your transmission and do an internal investigation to find the cause of failure, we're prepared to re-earn your trust in our cars by offering ___________. We sincerely appreciate your commitment to Porsche, and this accommodation on our part is our way of re-affirming our commitment to you. We realize there are many sports car companies to choose from and we're not oblivious to the reality that you could have gone elsewhere to buy your new vehicle. At Porsche, we've always expected just a little bit more, and this presents us with an unfortunate -- albeit perfect -- opportunity to demonstrate that very thread that exists within our company.
Most sincerely and respectfully,
PCNA
Part of spending $100,000 on a car is being treated like a $100,000 customer. If we all wanted to just live by the basic requirements and have our buying experience treated like buying a toaster, we'd drive Chevrolets.
A customer lost is always exponentially more expensive. The best of service companies realize that fixing a problem in a world class way with a customer is actually better than if there had never been a problem at all. Its an opportunity to blow a customer away with service and expectation. You dont get to do that very often when things are humming along. You quickly learn about the culture of companies when things hit the fan.
Ive provided consulting work in many industries to improve their service departments and relationships with customers, and the ones that get it realize problems arent things to hide but opportunities to exploit.
Lets see if PCNA sees it the same way I do.
Ive said enough.
02-29-2012, 12:48 AM
#69
Instructor
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Easy to tell who on here has never applied a wrench to car. It's a transmission not neurosurgery.
Champion has an excellent service department many of whom have been on their race teams, so replacing a tranny would be no problem.
Hope you have many miles of problem free driving.
Champion has an excellent service department many of whom have been on their race teams, so replacing a tranny would be no problem.
Hope you have many miles of problem free driving.
02-29-2012, 10:27 AM
#72
Drifting
02-29-2012, 11:19 AM
#73
Race Director
1) Who's to say the problem begins and ends with the transmission? Who made this determination? Did they inspect all other parts and components of the car? And if it is the PDK, whos certain it will not happen again? Have they already disassembled the original PDK and found the exact point of failure, diagnosed a reason for that failure, and determined a new tranny will not fail in the same way?
2) What would have happened if this exact same car's PDK would have **** the bed 5 miles prior while it was still on the dealer's lot as an unsold car? Would Porsche have replaced the tranny and still offered it as an identical brand new car like the others? Would the tranny serial numbers still match the body? Would Porsche have EVEN DISCLOSED that the tranny had been replaced to a prospective tirekicker on the lot?
3) And if they DIDNT disclose it and you found out later, would you have been perfectly fine with it, or aggravated about the dealership not disclosing the replaced transmission?
So the difference in two miles that the owner drove doesnt really change how I feel the dealership would handle this car's barfed PDK. Whatever their protocol would have been 2 miles prior, is the posture I would at the very LEAST expect here. And I cannot see how the dealership or PCNA could argue that selling a brand new unsold 911 with a replaced PDK wouldnt have compromised the selling price of the vehicle. I know I sure wouldnt buy it. Id just buy the 911 parked next to it without the baggage.
4) What about re-sale value? Do you believe disclosing to buyers 2-3 years from now that the PDK croaked 2 miles from delivery and was replaced will have zero impact on your ability to re-sell against other Porsches of the same make and model that didn't have their PDK replaced? If Im the buyer, why would I want to buy your used 911 when theres 100 others just like it that doesnt come with the same baggage?
5) All too often consumers give up their leverage when it is completely unnecessary. I never suggested Porsche give you free car or pay your child's college education. But a replacement car isnt a free car. Its simply a different car. But PCNA needs to man up, put on their big girl pants, and do what a premier company is supposed to do.
Ive said enough.
2) What would have happened if this exact same car's PDK would have **** the bed 5 miles prior while it was still on the dealer's lot as an unsold car? Would Porsche have replaced the tranny and still offered it as an identical brand new car like the others? Would the tranny serial numbers still match the body? Would Porsche have EVEN DISCLOSED that the tranny had been replaced to a prospective tirekicker on the lot?
3) And if they DIDNT disclose it and you found out later, would you have been perfectly fine with it, or aggravated about the dealership not disclosing the replaced transmission?
So the difference in two miles that the owner drove doesnt really change how I feel the dealership would handle this car's barfed PDK. Whatever their protocol would have been 2 miles prior, is the posture I would at the very LEAST expect here. And I cannot see how the dealership or PCNA could argue that selling a brand new unsold 911 with a replaced PDK wouldnt have compromised the selling price of the vehicle. I know I sure wouldnt buy it. Id just buy the 911 parked next to it without the baggage.
4) What about re-sale value? Do you believe disclosing to buyers 2-3 years from now that the PDK croaked 2 miles from delivery and was replaced will have zero impact on your ability to re-sell against other Porsches of the same make and model that didn't have their PDK replaced? If Im the buyer, why would I want to buy your used 911 when theres 100 others just like it that doesnt come with the same baggage?
5) All too often consumers give up their leverage when it is completely unnecessary. I never suggested Porsche give you free car or pay your child's college education. But a replacement car isnt a free car. Its simply a different car. But PCNA needs to man up, put on their big girl pants, and do what a premier company is supposed to do.
Ive said enough.
2). Car breaks on the dealer lot...it gets fixed. Why would that need to be disclosed? I don't think porsche even matches serial numbers to bodies anymore anyways. You might in fact poop yourself if you knew how often cars had damaged paint on bumpers from shipment and have some pieces repainted on the dock. you get no disclosure of this either.
3) Yes I would be perfectly fine with a transmission being replaced. Its not like it was replaced by AAMCO. It was replaced with a brand new unit from the factory.
4) Resale value? Jesus christ. I think you need to relax. You must be one of these owners who leaves the thing the garage except when its 75 degrees, 20% humidty, no chance of rain or mist, etc. Anybody with even a moderate understanding of manufactured objects would realize that **** HAPPENS.
5) The company is replacing his transmission, as per his new car warranty. Hell give him a free track day or something. New car or extended warranty..not a chance.
02-29-2012, 11:34 AM
#74
Pro
Quadcammer & Rushman71 Good points! I am so glad I am not the Manager of the Champion Porsche Service Department looking across the desk at UDPride on this one. This problem will be resolved, but the rants will remain a bad memory for all. Certainly the buyer has rights, he has not relinquished anything here. Best approach is to remain calm, ranting does not empower you or your situation. Let Champion and Porsche have the opportunity to do their job.
02-29-2012, 11:49 AM
#75
Quadcammer & Rushman71 Good points! I am so glad I am not the Manager of the Champion Porsche Service Department looking across the desk at UDPride on this one. This problem will be resolved, but the rants will remain a bad memory for all. Certainly the buyer has rights, he has not relinquished anything here. Best approach is to remain calm, ranting does not empower you or your situation. Let Champion and Porsche have the opportunity to do their job.
When I was younger I use to think a little anger would get my point accross better. In my mature years I've learned an amazing trick-- especially when complaining over the phone-- that the nicer you are, the better the result. I feel (almost) guilty for what I have received/been compensated for little, but legitimate, concerns. The last was a brand new whole bumper from VW for our family Touareg. No kidding here...