RedBarron2007

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/n...-driven-review

alexb76

More details than Insideline. Confirms the car's less rear biased and gets a 7-speed manual tranny based on PDK.

mdrums

At the end of the article it says they didn't actually drive it...I think these journalists got ride alongs. Still though a cool sneak peak of the new 991.

I know a lot of people are poo pooing the 991 on the forums but until I see a 991 in person and actually get to drive it I can't make judgement on the new 991. I'm thinking positive and that Porsche knows what they are doing and have a great vision for this car and the new Boxster and Cayman coming out soon too.

alexb76

I agree.. there are positives. Manual shifting PDK! better weight distribution, less weight... I think MOST are very disappointed with the interior though... it's way more GT than any hard core would have liked. Also, not sure how much larger the whole car is... so I guess gotto wait and see!

ADias

My view of the 991 is clear: It will be an awesome car! It will most probably be a better performer than the 997.2.

I learned about the 991's longer WB a long time ago and immediately expressed my concern about changes in its handling as I care about that. I drive a 911 because I love its unique characteristics. When those characteristics change (and they have with the 991 - several reports clearly say that its dynamic characteristics have changed, as the car is far more stable)... My 997.2 is already a much more refined car than the 996/993/964 were. It comes a point when the refinements changes the original 911 characteristics completely. I do not want a super stable/refined car, or better weight distribution.

So there you have it. It's not poopooing the 991. The 991 will be an awesome car, but nor for all of us. I bet that most Porsche buyers these days won't know the difference.

DHC

7-speed manual? Sounds like a great way to cruise on the interstate system at 2500 rpm, with better mpg than my 997.1.

Edgy01

"...Porsche’s prototype 991, only the third new 911 design in the car’s 48 year history..."

I can't say that I agree with their statement there.

The first significant change was the lengthening of the wheelbase in 1970. (1)

The next was the transformation to the 993 (the 964 was too close to the 911 series to be considered a change) (2)

The 996 and 997 are the transformation of the 911 into the water world. (3)

The 991-- being as conservative as possible, would be at least the 4th redo of the 911.

(Most would say you had the 911, 964, 993, 996, 997 and now finally the 991. That adds up to at least 6.)

zanwar

Overall a very positive article.

This puts to rest the notion they were forced to increase the wheelbase by the EPA, for CAFE rules or some other regulation. The engineers found a way to move the rear wheels back a couple of inches by developing a new manual transmission. I believe this turns the 911 into more of the car they've always wanted to build, but couldn't because of packaging considerations. Really looking forward to trying the new car.

ADias

Not true. The footprint increase was totally CAFE driven. The rest is spin.

RedBarron2007

well, i see this as a natrual progression.. the caymen has been a better platform for the hard core since it was released, but they have handicapped it because they did not want it to outrun the 911.. I think the 991 is the "moving on" 911 that is going to put it with the other cars it has to sell against, like it or not, a caymen equiped with the same hp as a 911 would whip it around a track, and porsche has known this for a long time.. I am the customer they are doing this for as I look at ALL modals everytime i buy a car, and am not 911 or nothing guy, like prob 75% of there customers..or at least the first time customers anyway.. forgive me if none of this makes sense.. it worked in my head as i typed it but i am having holiday festivities..lol

mdrobc1213

hmm jury is still out. Looks to me to be more Panamera-ish than the Carrera we've known and loved. Longer wheelbase and interior changes speak more GT than sports car. But we'll all see oh in 45-60 days I guess. Will stick with my 997.2 and be very happy for now!

fskof

I agree with you. Before we can make a judgement on the new car lets wait till we see one in person so we can hear it, touch it, smell it and DRIVE IT!

simsgw

Been there, tried that.

But looked at seriously, the 911 never has been a 'ceiling' blocking better performance for the Cayman. Top Gear loves to say such things, as do other pundits who want to sound knowledgeable, but it really has no basis in engineering fact.

We start with targets. Boxster had one target, the Cayman another, and the 911 target has been stable within the overall market for cars since its introduction. It really is that simple. Cars were never my design subjects, but the targets are fairly obvious even to an outside engineer.

The 911 always has been a high end sports car with a strong emphasis on the grand touring role. The company always was willing to do specials, custom built versions of the 911, and they still do that. Some were versions driven by the desires of influential customers and then made available to others -- at a price -- while some were opportunities conceived internally or needed to meet homologation rules for some racing opportunity. Those versions always cost a lot more to make because the engineers and custom craftsman don't rely on mass production techniques after they take the platform off the main line. They cost a lot more, and being exclusive versions they normally sell for an even greater bump over the 'list' price of a line produced 911.

That's the Porsche "elite sports car" concept in 1960 and half a century later as well. Details have changed but not the engineering target itself. Porsche does not build a cheap 911, even to the whimsical extent we could consider a merely fifty grand car to be cheap. Neither the Cayman or the Boxster is a cheaper version of the 911. They have different engineering targets.

I didn't get acquainted with either car well enough while shopping for our Porsche, but from that brief phase I'd say it is no more fair to call a Boxster a cheap Cabriolet than it would be to call it a cheap Aston Martin Vantage. Their list price is lower than either the 911 cars or the Astons, and certainly that list price is part of an engineering target, but they were in no sense designed by cheapening the 911 to reach some cost target. They are as different from a 911 as they are from an Aston. Last week, while getting our Carrera serviced, I drove a Boxster Spyder. Very nice car and with no sense at all of feeling like they skimped here and there to make it less expensive than the car I just left in the service department. Just different.

Now admittedly, the Spyder is one of those specials I mentioned above, so I suppose the higher price allows some extra leather here and there, but I'm an engineer not an interior designer. I would have noticed if the upholstery felt cheap, but that isn't what I really look for, if you see the distinction. That Spyder was a very nice car I wouldn't mind owning at all. Except... well, it isn't the engineering target likely to suit us at this age. We need to keep that grand touring element. But I sure would have loved a Spyder when we were youngsters of fifty or so.

All of that you can get commentators to accept, but then they feel obligated to remark how fast the Cayman (or Boxster if that's their subject) would be if it didn't have to stay slower than the 911 line. That's simply not true except in the broad sense that I would be a pretty girl if I were not an old man. Making a Cayman faster than it is already at the top end would require one of two things. Either the sort of expensive hand-massaged treatment they give specials, or a change in the engineering target. You can stuff a big engine in anything of course. I've seen a lot of 914's at the track with V8 engines, but let's assume we're talking about a car Porsche would actually sell right off the production line.

In that sense, a Cayman is close to being maxed out with the latest models. To take one example, the engineering target permitted less sophisticated suspension than the Carrera platforms. And when we say that in engineering terms, the word 'permitted' means compelled also. We don't put titanium suspension or a carbon-fiber body on a Toyota Corolla when we can meet the weight/strength requirements with less expensive components. So it is with the Cayman. The platform was not designed to accommodate the performance range of the 911 line. Taking a Cayman racing requires much more elaborate attention to the chassis than a Carrera. Adding Carrera horsepower without those suspension mods will just get you moving faster as you go off the track. For the road, we can modify our own examples, or we can order specials from Porsche with custom attention, but we can not buy a line-produced Cayman that matches a line-produced Carrera anymore than I can be a pretty girl by picking the right blouse.

Could Porsche design a mid-engine car in the market range of the 911? Well, of course. Just as easily (or making it look as easy) as they did a four-door luxury saloon car. But what would be the point? They have the 911 for that market. The Cayman is not a mid-engine 911 any more than it is a cheap 911. It's just a great sports car for a different engineering target that matches a market Porsche saw.

I'm sure the people who buy the Cayman include many who would enjoy the performance of the Carrera, but that doesn't mean they want it in a daily driver. For most of my life, I would have wanted an elegant sports car I could afford without depriving my family of other essentials. A Cayman is that as well as other things I don't know the target well enough to identify. I'm also sure about half my friends I'll meet today would enjoy looking at a pretty girl. But that doesn't mean they aren't happy with my charm on the golf course and they certainly would remark any effort of mine to choose a frilly blouse.

Gotta go to my own aged revels now, before I miss my tea time... uh, tee time.

Gary

swajames

Very well stated, Gary.

keynes

gary as usual makes a long winded reply full of facts and stuff that makes your head spin. Thank you gary for making this site worth reading. edgy, I think that the 964/993 are very close mechanicals wise. the 993 skin is fabulous and I am leaning that way for my next weekend car buy.

keynes