If I can tune a fish ... why not my car?
08-26-2016, 10:01 AM
#16
Some things you can. It's absolute in the sense Porsche will not warrant it nor reimburse any dealer that opts to fix it without their prior approval or, agreement to pick up the tab.
As mentioned, it's always a dealers prerogative whether they wish to absorb the costs of such "factory unwarranted" repairs in house at their own expense.
Where warranty is offered on a used car the same situation applies.
You'd be surprised just how big, big brother has become with these new ECU's. I was given a fairly good snapshot into just what it can show only just the other day as it so happens. Truly amazing! It will make your head spin.
I have an excellent long term relationship with my dealer but I wonder just how good that will prove if I popped an engine, turbocharger or transmission on a tuned car. Somehow I think I have my answer to that without even having to ask. However, if they sold me the car with a tune in it then they really don't have much of an option. It becomes a case where "they" are on their own.
Just saying if your dealers/service advisers assurances aren't in writing then they don't exist in any sense where Porsche HQ is concerned. That is absolute.
As mentioned, it's always a dealers prerogative whether they wish to absorb the costs of such "factory unwarranted" repairs in house at their own expense.
Where warranty is offered on a used car the same situation applies.
You'd be surprised just how big, big brother has become with these new ECU's. I was given a fairly good snapshot into just what it can show only just the other day as it so happens. Truly amazing! It will make your head spin.
I have an excellent long term relationship with my dealer but I wonder just how good that will prove if I popped an engine, turbocharger or transmission on a tuned car. Somehow I think I have my answer to that without even having to ask. However, if they sold me the car with a tune in it then they really don't have much of an option. It becomes a case where "they" are on their own.
Just saying if your dealers/service advisers assurances aren't in writing then they don't exist in any sense where Porsche HQ is concerned. That is absolute.
08-26-2016, 10:05 AM
#17
You sound a little grumpy in this post!
My buddy had that exact exhaust turbine failure I described happen in his cheap GM car. The dealership knew him well, covered it under warranty, and didn't mention the fact that he cooked it at the track running a session at 25psi on a car rated for 17. They did know and easily could have denied the claim. His tune and hardware wasn't adequate for track usage, but if he ran richer and without a cat the heat level may have stayed more manageable. He genuinely didn't have the money to fix it, so the dealer helped him out.
That's not very useful to the OP despite it being real world experience. It says relationships matter and sometimes are more important than the details. No surprises there, and he'd have to be the judge on whether to take a risk like that.
My buddy had that exact exhaust turbine failure I described happen in his cheap GM car. The dealership knew him well, covered it under warranty, and didn't mention the fact that he cooked it at the track running a session at 25psi on a car rated for 17. They did know and easily could have denied the claim. His tune and hardware wasn't adequate for track usage, but if he ran richer and without a cat the heat level may have stayed more manageable. He genuinely didn't have the money to fix it, so the dealer helped him out.
That's not very useful to the OP despite it being real world experience. It says relationships matter and sometimes are more important than the details. No surprises there, and he'd have to be the judge on whether to take a risk like that.
08-26-2016, 10:08 AM
#18
Mike - I'll text you my service manager's name.
Sure are a lot of people weighing in here with no actual experience.
OP if you want to talk to people who have actually tuned and raced their 991 911 Turbos there are places you can do that, this doesn't appear to be one of them.
Sure are a lot of people weighing in here with no actual experience.
OP if you want to talk to people who have actually tuned and raced their 991 911 Turbos there are places you can do that, this doesn't appear to be one of them.
08-26-2016, 02:30 PM
#19
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Having a Porsche dealership warranty an engine failure with a tuned ECU is a crap shoot.
It is NOT the Porsche dealership that is authorizing the Repair/Warranty. The Regional Porsche technical/warranty advisor makes ALL the decision. There are forms and authorization>>including an inspection. We aren't talking about a turbocharger or alternator.. A head gasket failure or complete engine write off will trigger a review with the engine/car data print out. IF ECU tampering or reflash count/timestamp doesn't match up to the Porsche service history the ECU can be requested.
The Service Manager cannot write a check for a $36K engine, nor can he vouch for a tuned car (the Dealership OWNER might depending on your relationship or buying POWER>did you buy the 918, Carrera GT, 993TT S and so forth). His job is on the line. What's going to happen when that "said" Service Manager takes a 2 week vacation or is hired by another dealership?
Fidelity and EasyCare warranties are the preferred options for tuned and modded cars.
It is NOT the Porsche dealership that is authorizing the Repair/Warranty. The Regional Porsche technical/warranty advisor makes ALL the decision. There are forms and authorization>>including an inspection. We aren't talking about a turbocharger or alternator.. A head gasket failure or complete engine write off will trigger a review with the engine/car data print out. IF ECU tampering or reflash count/timestamp doesn't match up to the Porsche service history the ECU can be requested.
The Service Manager cannot write a check for a $36K engine, nor can he vouch for a tuned car (the Dealership OWNER might depending on your relationship or buying POWER>did you buy the 918, Carrera GT, 993TT S and so forth). His job is on the line. What's going to happen when that "said" Service Manager takes a 2 week vacation or is hired by another dealership?
Fidelity and EasyCare warranties are the preferred options for tuned and modded cars.
08-26-2016, 09:10 PM
#20
Agree with Kevin - if you want a warranty on a tuned vehicle then get an aftermarket one. But to tune your car and then think you hold some form of exclusive sway over your local service adviser to accommodate your mishaps just because you might have a string of expensive cars sitting in your garage is delusion gone bizarre. Funny how certain owners head size can swell along with the size of their wallet
Also, where 918's and other limited #GT cars are concerned, Porsche know they are doing the customer the favor allowing them allocation - not the other way around. There'd be no shortage of buyers to soak up the numbers on these LE cars if any of these owners wanted to put on a song and dance after being shown the door. It'd be like ta ta.
Also, where 918's and other limited #GT cars are concerned, Porsche know they are doing the customer the favor allowing them allocation - not the other way around. There'd be no shortage of buyers to soak up the numbers on these LE cars if any of these owners wanted to put on a song and dance after being shown the door. It'd be like ta ta.
08-27-2016, 10:08 AM
#21
Agree with Kevin - if you want a warranty on a tuned vehicle then get an aftermarket one. But to tune your car and then think you hold some form of exclusive sway over your local service adviser to accommodate your mishaps just because you might have a string of expensive cars sitting in your garage is delusion gone bizarre. Funny how certain owners head size can swell along with the size of their wallet
IMO where financial status plays in is:
1. You may be in a position to tune and assume the risk because it won't break the bank if a replacement engine isn't warrantied.
2. You are in a position where it won't hurt so much. (see #1. above)
Another reason where I can see that one might take the risk of tune:
1. The ever so popular state of ZERO F***S. You want your car to fly and are willing to take the risk to make it happen.
But back to the point of the thread...people like to rely on the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act to give them peace in their mind that they can argue warranty denials. Manufacturers usually will circumvent it with justification. So in most cases, you're not covered when mods contribute to a failure whatsoever. The Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act does give you rights as a consumer to challenge your dealer, so again, while we as car owners can voice our opinions as strongly as we wish, there are no absolutes. I'm certain this very debate was in some small way a contributing factor to the discussion and subsequent passing of the act to begin with.
08-27-2016, 10:27 PM
#22
Yes. To make that assumption that a dealer would warranty a tuned car is not a smart move. Not sure where heads swelling because of expensive cars plays in but ok (does that somehow create plausibility to the idea "more=less?"...I jest-LOL ;-)....relationships with service advisors can make a difference in a lot of ways regardless of financial status.
IMO where financial status plays in is:
1. You may be in a position to tune and assume the risk because it won't break the bank if a replacement engine isn't warrantied.
2. You are in a position where it won't hurt so much. (see #1. above)
Another reason where I can see that one might take the risk of tune:
1. The ever so popular state of ZERO F***S. You want your car to fly and are willing to take the risk to make it happen.
But back to the point of the thread...people like to rely on the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act to give them peace in their mind that they can argue warranty denials. Manufacturers usually will circumvent it with justification. So in most cases, you're not covered when mods contribute to a failure whatsoever. The Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act does give you rights as a consumer to challenge your dealer, so again, while we as car owners can voice our opinions as strongly as we wish, there are no absolutes. I'm certain this very debate was in some small way a contributing factor to the discussion and subsequent passing of the act to begin with.
IMO where financial status plays in is:
1. You may be in a position to tune and assume the risk because it won't break the bank if a replacement engine isn't warrantied.
2. You are in a position where it won't hurt so much. (see #1. above)
Another reason where I can see that one might take the risk of tune:
1. The ever so popular state of ZERO F***S. You want your car to fly and are willing to take the risk to make it happen.
But back to the point of the thread...people like to rely on the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act to give them peace in their mind that they can argue warranty denials. Manufacturers usually will circumvent it with justification. So in most cases, you're not covered when mods contribute to a failure whatsoever. The Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act does give you rights as a consumer to challenge your dealer, so again, while we as car owners can voice our opinions as strongly as we wish, there are no absolutes. I'm certain this very debate was in some small way a contributing factor to the discussion and subsequent passing of the act to begin with.
Boasting ones expertise or length of time in the field of tuning/modding is irrelevant where the manufacturers warranty terms and conditions are concerned. Not sure why the need to do that?
I guess if an owner wants to mount a legal challenge against Porsche, relying on magnusson moss (whatever) - wow lol I bet Porsche will shiver in their boots!
Coldlist I've never implied anyone should not tune or mod their car. Just that beating off on the open forums misleading others into believing they have manufacturers warranty off the back of their service managers reassurances, or, ability to rely on legal challenges and so forth as some kind of reassuring fall back position is at the end of the day nothing more than just self indulgent nonsense, and should really be kept to PMs or behind doors pillow talk.
08-28-2016, 12:12 AM
#23
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I've only thought people were expecting MM to help if the dealer denied a factory warranty claim that was completely unrelated to the tune. That's all it should do.
While tuning has risks, so does driving any older out of warranty Porsche (IMS, bore scoring).
While tuning has risks, so does driving any older out of warranty Porsche (IMS, bore scoring).
08-28-2016, 01:06 AM
#24
Agree, driving any older unwarranted P car has risks. This is where aftermarket warranties can have their merit. Just look over on the 997tt boards with all the discussion over the so called bullet proof mezger re spun cams. leaking outlets and the likes lol. Some sad stories sure going on their. Pays to have some kind of insurance imho.
08-29-2016, 01:19 PM
#25
My point there was - regardless of what you may have spent with the brand or what your personal wealth may (or may not be) does not change the manufacturers warranty terms and conditions - and yes I've seen certain owners behave in a big headed way - pathetic and embarrassing as it is. Funny if they had so much money and, nothing bothered them then why do they behave like they are something special with the manufacturer?
Boasting ones expertise or length of time in the field of tuning/modding is irrelevant where the manufacturers warranty terms and conditions are concerned. Not sure why the need to do that?
I guess if an owner wants to mount a legal challenge against Porsche, relying on magnusson moss (whatever) - wow lol I bet Porsche will shiver in their boots!
Coldlist I've never implied anyone should not tune or mod their car. Just that beating off on the open forums misleading others into believing they have manufacturers warranty off the back of their service managers reassurances, or, ability to rely on legal challenges and so forth as some kind of reassuring fall back position is at the end of the day nothing more than just self indulgent nonsense, and should really be kept to PMs or behind doors pillow talk.
Boasting ones expertise or length of time in the field of tuning/modding is irrelevant where the manufacturers warranty terms and conditions are concerned. Not sure why the need to do that?
I guess if an owner wants to mount a legal challenge against Porsche, relying on magnusson moss (whatever) - wow lol I bet Porsche will shiver in their boots!
Coldlist I've never implied anyone should not tune or mod their car. Just that beating off on the open forums misleading others into believing they have manufacturers warranty off the back of their service managers reassurances, or, ability to rely on legal challenges and so forth as some kind of reassuring fall back position is at the end of the day nothing more than just self indulgent nonsense, and should really be kept to PMs or behind doors pillow talk.
Agreed on very low likelihood of a win against Porsche. Probably fruitless in most cases. Is it irrelevant? No. Just slim possibilities.
No sure if you are implying that relying on assurances form service mgrs. was my position. IMO that would also be silly except in rare cases where a SA or SM has demonstrated abilities to do so in the past for you or close acquaintances. Really, in essence, posting and/ALL of one's "opinions" are self-indulgent by nature huh? Somewhere we've gotten away from my sole point of saying that no one can really speak from a position of "what ifs" in an absolute manner. We share the position that tuning is most definitely a risk that rests squarely on the shoulders of the owner. And it is almost always going to end up in the "win" column for the manufacturer.
Anyway, I'm not going to comment more on this as it's getting a little astray.
08-29-2016, 07:01 PM
#26
My point was that financial status really has nothing to do with warranty coverage..seemed weird that you would mention. So we agree on irrelevance. :-)
Agreed on very low likelihood of a win against Porsche. Probably fruitless in most cases. Is it irrelevant? No. Just slim possibilities.
No sure if you are implying that relying on assurances form service mgrs. was my position. IMO that would also be silly except in rare cases where a SA or SM has demonstrated abilities to do so in the past for you or close acquaintances. Really, in essence, posting and/ALL of one's "opinions" are self-indulgent by nature huh? Somewhere we've gotten away from my sole point of saying that no one can really speak from a position of "what ifs" in an absolute manner. We share the position that tuning is most definitely a risk that rests squarely on the shoulders of the owner. And it is almost always going to end up in the "win" column for the manufacturer.
Anyway, I'm not going to comment more on this as it's getting a little astray.
Agreed on very low likelihood of a win against Porsche. Probably fruitless in most cases. Is it irrelevant? No. Just slim possibilities.
No sure if you are implying that relying on assurances form service mgrs. was my position. IMO that would also be silly except in rare cases where a SA or SM has demonstrated abilities to do so in the past for you or close acquaintances. Really, in essence, posting and/ALL of one's "opinions" are self-indulgent by nature huh? Somewhere we've gotten away from my sole point of saying that no one can really speak from a position of "what ifs" in an absolute manner. We share the position that tuning is most definitely a risk that rests squarely on the shoulders of the owner. And it is almost always going to end up in the "win" column for the manufacturer.
Anyway, I'm not going to comment more on this as it's getting a little astray.
But to answer those questions: No wasn't directing that comment at you per se'. And the self indulgence referred to the claiming of ones experience with tuning/modding - being irrelevant and unnecessary in this situation given Porsche's stated/written position with their warranty policy.
08-29-2016, 07:12 PM
#27
Agree we've covered it coldlist.
But to answer those questions: No wasn't directing that comment at you per se'. And the self indulgence referred to the claiming of ones experience with tuning/modding - being irrelevant and unnecessary in this situation given Porsche's stated/written position with their warranty policy.
But to answer those questions: No wasn't directing that comment at you per se'. And the self indulgence referred to the claiming of ones experience with tuning/modding - being irrelevant and unnecessary in this situation given Porsche's stated/written position with their warranty policy.
