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For my GT3, it took me around 16 months, from looking for an allocation and delivery. This is the longest time I looked for a car.
I am a nobody, but I know this fact, as long as you have the money, and want an RS, you(I)will get one.
I am not too worried right now, lets say compared to when I was looking for a GT3. And if I dont get one, my GT3 is more than enough to get me to the grocery and occasionally make my hair on fire.
Otherwise, my SUV can do the rest.
So PCNA, you can play all the games you want, but your tricks are for new comers. The rest of us who have been there, you know what I mean.
Congrats to those who have a car on order/on the way.
That is what I have been told also. My 997 RS I purchased used. I am next on my dealers list for the 991. Hopefully will get it.
Actually it''s probably one of the lowest. If not the lowest.
High margin cars are the Macan, Panamera and Cayenne (probably in that order).
If we're talking the 911 model line, then the base Carrera would have the highest margin.
how is it possible for about twice the MSRP u have few different body panels, modified motor, transmission, slightly different brake and wheels specs, less interior and less electronic luxuries. Id think it would be one of the highest margin products..Id build as many as possible and ship em to the USA especially with the strength of dollar and the China stockmarket situation
how is it possible for about twice the MSRP u have few different body panels, modified motor, transmission, slightly different brake and wheels specs, less interior and less electronic luxuries. Id think it would be one of the highest margin products..Id build as many as possible and ship em to the USA especially with the strength of dollar and the China stockmarket situation
That's because you are a smart business owner trying to maximize your profits, let's see if PAG is smart enough to do that.
Since we are taking a left turn on allocations, the discussion of SUVs does not make much sense to me, as they are not made in Zuffenhausen and I don't think realistically could be made there. The Zuffenhausen line can make any and all of the 911/Boxster/Cayman variants in any order, which to my mind is pure genius. I don't know the particulars, but I find it hard to believe that a $180,000 GT3 RS does not have more margin than a much less expensive 911 Carrera. In addition, consumers will pay full nickel and then some for the RS and I doubt anyone pays full nickel for a Carrera right now. Just like there is such a thing as a 2016 GT3, I will be surprised if more RS's don't come online
Yeah, no way the RS doesn't have the highest total dollar margins as well as the highest % margin of any car than any other car in the Porsche line-up (even the 918). I hope PAG wises up and starts cranking out some more RSs.
Logically the 911 closest to the base model with a minimum of variation at a higher list price will have the highest margin. Like the Targa S. The GT3 and RS with unique motors and suspension and drivetrain will be lower due to lower amortization of development expenses for those unique parts, but still way higher than any SUV- maybe tied with base 911 for margin.
how is it possible for about twice the MSRP u have few different body panels, modified motor, transmission, slightly different brake and wheels specs, less interior and less electronic luxuries. Id think it would be one of the highest margin products..Id build as many as possible and ship em to the USA especially with the strength of dollar and the China stockmarket situation
It's not twice the MSRP.
84k for a base Carrera versus 130k for a base GT3.
And you've sort of made my point. All of the changes you noted vis-a-vis the GT3 and Carrera accounts for most if not nearly all the price differential. And let's not forget the different suspension setup, front and rear axle, steering, exhaust, etc.
Also, the electronic luxuries and other goodies available to the Carrera are major profit margin drivers. PAG would love to sell you a Bose or a Burmeister on the GT3, or a moonroof. But the GT division might walkout if that happened.
Since we are taking a left turn on allocations, the discussion of SUVs does not make much sense to me, as they are not made in Zuffenhausen and I don't think realistically could be made there. The Zuffenhausen line can make any and all of the 911/Boxster/Cayman variants in any order, which to my mind is pure genius. I don't know the particulars, but I find it hard to believe that a $180,000 GT3 RS does not have more margin than a much less expensive 911 Carrera. In addition, consumers will pay full nickel and then some for the RS and I doubt anyone pays full nickel for a Carrera right now. Just like there is such a thing as a 2016 GT3, I will be surprised if more RS's don't come online
The margin for Porsche per car is set in stone as in their dealer invoice price. Whatever 'market adjustment' dealers tacked on Porsche won't see a dime off that.
Specialized cars like the GT3 and GT3RS and the Targas don't have a lot of extra margin if any, as the specialized parts are more expensive to Porsche than the regular run off the mill production parts that were mass produced. So yes a base Carrera 2 non S with a few popular options like leather interior and stuff will be the highest margin cars. Porsche can maximize the pricing on mass produced parts to the fullest.
The discounts you see on base cars are from the dealers, not from the factory. It only means the dealers make less per car, not Porsche itself.
84k for a base Carrera versus 130k for a base GT3.
And you've sort of made my point. All of the changes you noted vis-a-vis the GT3 and Carrera accounts for most if not nearly all the price differential. And let's not forget the different suspension setup, front and rear axle, steering, exhaust, etc.
Also, the electronic luxuries and other goodies available to the Carrera are major profit margin drivers. PAG would love to sell you a Bose or a Burmeister on the GT3, or a moonroof. But the GT division might walkout if that happened.
I doubt lots of base Carreras are optioned heavily, my GT3 came in at 156, Im sure PAG made plenty of profit on my LWBs The RS will be even more, I doubt GT3 struts cost much more than base 911 struts. Im glad PAG turns a profit, I just dont understand the logic of building more cars that are harder to sell when there is a huge demand for others. Look at FIAT, they are increasing Hellcat production due to demand
Highest margin on the base vehicles - macan, cayenne, boxster, etc. The more limited the lower the margin. These cars are meant to be brand "halo" products to maintain the sports car /racing image that will convince someone to pay twice as much for a macan vs a Honda Pilot. Obviously they still make plenty margin on all cars.
anyone else think more GT3RS will come after aug vacation
Highest margin cars for Porsche is 911 turbo/s! The 991RS is probably still a good deal for them but the magnesium roof and carbon fenders/hood on the outside and all the small changes in suspension/ engine etc are not cheap.
"For every Porsche it sold last year, Volkswagen booked about $23,200 in operating profit, for a margin of 18 percent, according to an annual report it released this morning. Bentley wasn’t far behind Porsche, and the Audi brand, which includes the Lamborghini badge, posted $5,200 in profit per vehicle at a 10 percent margin. That compares with an $850 return, at a 2.9 percent margin, for one of VW’s mass-market machines, such as the Jetta or Passat."
Here is a graph of Porsche worldwide sales in recent history. By the way, they are on target to produce just a tad over 200K units in this '15 fiscal year. This was part of what was communicated to us during my recent visit in both Zuffenhausen & Leipzig:
What both of these data points do not tell us is which Porsche model generates the most profit, and margin, for the corporation. From my business school training, I learned long ago not to assume too much from 'average' figures. And as always, the devil is in the details. Since Whoopsy brought it up, let us make it clear that the 'margins' reported above have nothing to do with the difference between MSRP & invoice at a dealership for any given Porsche car.
In the US, PAG sells to PCNA, who in turn sells to the independent dealer. If PCNA fiscal books are wholly consolidated into PAG's financial reporting due to ownership, then the selling price recorded is what dealers paid for the Porsche vehicles. Their customer is a dealer - not you or me.
As Montoya pointed out, PAG should assign the developmental cost & expenses of a vehicle to that particular model. So we have to assume that all expenses related to the specialized engineering (motor, components, testing, etc) of the 991 gt3 RS are charged to the RS. However, if most of these monetary outlays were part of the development of the base gt3 too (which share so much with the RS), then the allocation of these 'charges' to the RS could be smaller than expected. On the other hand, remember that the massive expenses related to the 'stop sale' & worldwide gt3 engine exchange program will manifest itself against the entire gt3 & RS model program! In fact, the gt3 program could be operating at a loss right now due to the extraordinary expenses associated with the 'stop sale' & 'engine exchange', which probably exceeded all the profit margins on the 991 gt3!
So I don't expect, given everything we know at this late date, that the 991 gt3 or the 991 gt3 RS is considered by PAG accountants as a particularly profitable model! So caveat lector. My dos centavos, of course. But let the profitability debate, or speculation, continue. I find it interesting 'reading' here on Rennlist.
Yeah, no way the RS doesn't have the highest total dollar margins as well as the highest % margin of any car than any other car in the Porsche line-up (even the 918). I hope PAG wises up and starts cranking out some more RSs.
4.0 Margin was $0 at $185k MSRP and 600 units. I would argue higher manufacturing complexity in the current RS than the 4.0 and more bespoke parts for it. TTS used to run a 70% when PAG was listed separately and at the time was the highest across all automakers.
Harder to get visibility on this now that it is part of VW, but I seriously struggle to see a 2000 to 3000 unit run with a ton of bespoke parts coming anywhere near the TTS. Manufacturing costs and efficiency on small batches are tough...
There will be a second collective tranche of allocations to US dealers in late Winter / early Spring 2016.
Doesn't mean that there won't be trickles and drip-drip-drip allocations in the interim.
This is what I heard also from a VERY good source. Now whether they call it MY 2016 I am not sure. Also heard that there will be very limited production numbers made. Almost sounds like what Porsche did with 2016 GT3?!?
07-29-2015, 11:26 PM
