TRAKCAR

Yup, me either Mike, only a handful of 991GT3 drovers around the world beating the cars properly on track and not too many days on the cars at that.

This was different when the 997RS arrived... We wait and see, I cant see how a 991GT3 cant do a 1.30 on Hoosier like tires at 475HP and 3200lbs..

More importantly how will they do for 50 track days of hard track beating? Hopefully as well as a TT does 50 Launch controls :-)

MayorAdamWest

Ugh, sorry, it was not my intention to have a pissing contest. I only wanted to point out that I find the numbers a little suspect if your intention is to really compare times. I have to imagine based on times at other tracks that someone could pretty easily do a 1:37 or less in the gt3 with the factory tires. Again, sorry, didn't mean to offend.

Manifold

Fair point, though, that if you really want to compare the cars, they each need to be driven close enough to their limits. Same applies to the journalist comparisons where they're supposedly getting meaningful lap times, but meanwhile chatting away and no helmets.

orthojoe

This is actually a very interesting observation. It really starts to make you wonder when S2000s are running 1:57 at thunder hill and 1:39 at Sonoma, while much more capable and powerful 911s struggle to match that. My guess is that the newer cars are capable of faster times, but only the rare individual can actually pull it off. It's much easier to extract the full capability out of a slower car. I'm going to predict I will only be slightly faster in a 991GT3 over my spyder. Primarily because my self preservation instincts won't allow me to see the true limit of the car. This brings me back to my prediction that we've reached a limit in what buyers can appreciate in terms of car performance. Unless the cars start driving themselves.....

Porsche-Suchtig

Rough crowd.

Difficult question.

One other important point to consider is that track times also depend on the ambient conditions. The last time I was there (July 2014) conditions seemed to be less favorable, though I don't exactly know why. Times were about 1-2 seconds slower than the prior year (July 2013).

P.S. NASA has had no sound limit days each of the last two years. There's a set number allowed each year and they are spread out somewhat among different racing organizations.

Porsche-Suchtig

Here are a few links to lap times for various cars:

Mostly Randy Pobst: http://www.motortrend.com/features/laguna_lap/

Mostly amateurs (Cup listed here faster than GT1 cars in July 2014--probably not repeatable): http://www.trackhq.com/forums/f94/to...ap-times-2418/

SFR region of SCCA (GT2 lap record is a Cup): http://www.sfrscca.org/index.php?opt...dSubmit=Submit

Porsche-Suchtig

PS - With Randy Pobst doing a 1:33 in a 650 HP Viper TA in semi-slick tires, no one here is going to be under 1:35 in a stock 991 GT3.

wanna911

I agree. 1:30 is not going to happen. Randy did that in a Viper TA on slicks. And Jesse is no slouch in the least with a 1:33.1. I think 7 cups are in the 1:27-1:28 range. A set of hoosiers is not going to get you in the 3 second delta range on a track like Laguna.

Porsche-Suchtig

I don't think 7 cups are in the 27s and 28s except under extraordinary circumstances. Patrick Long, on a good day in a factory prepped 7 cup, maybe so. But, regular guys on a normal day, I don't think that's going to happen.

The SCCA GT2 record in a 7 cup, held by B. Faieta (a very fast driver) is 1:31.8. NASA ST1 record in a 7 Cup, held by an old fart, is 1:32.6.

P.S. 7 Cups have 400 HP. The Viper TA has 650. That's a huge deficit to make up. We can't go 5 seconds a lap faster than Randy Pobst with 650 HP.

Carrera GT

We'll have to wait for another day, preferably with the 991 GT3 caged and set up on Hoosiers or at least Trofeo's.
I think if we take the :33.1 of the RS 4.0 and say a nominal :35.x as the 991 Turbo S as the brackets, on Sport Cup 2's or perhaps the wordily named "Dunlop Sport Maxx Race," maybe we see the car in that bracket. With a Cup wing, maybe a half a second quicker, relative to that time. With Hoosiers, maybe as much as two full seconds which are evident when the 991 GT3 is in a four-wheel drift in turns 4, 5, 6 and 10, just begging for some chemistry twixt track and tire.
The :33.1 from the 4.0 was on a "stars aligned" day when track, tires and car setup all came together and some aggressive risks paid off with minimal losses evident in the data.
I don't see any joy in those risks to be circulating at :33's for anything more than a flying lap or time trial, but if the 991 GT3 can be set up (camber, ride height, aero) without taking out PASM and run all day in the :35's, I think that's a lot of fun to be had without being on the knife edge or asking the car to jump off the top of the corkscrew, etc.

TRAKCAR

I was happy to keep the 2 left wheels mostly on he asphalt :-)

Carrera GT

Hey! Who you calling slow poke?! : )

No, 39's are respectable and I think when we spoke on that day I suggested you weren't going to find much more if you're lifting (maybe a half second cost there, but I'll need to dissect the data and see ... the car's getting up around 8000 rpm there and the upshift happens with just a brief second of higher speed just after the bridge before brakes and then you're even overcooking it for the Sport Cup's to hold the car through the dip at the apex at T6. It's quite a handful to maintain the weight and momentum to give ita chance up the hill. It really lacks torque to get up the hill. A 430 Spider was the same acceleration as the GT3 wide open up the hill into T7. Of course, the GT3 gained about 200 feet (!) under brakes ... : )

By the way, I was finding 32 psi on a warm to hot track was stable and well balanced with only -1.9 front camber. 991 GT3 alignment is going to take some more laps to work through the combinations to find something better (in terms of the combination of toe, camber and tire temps for peak apex G's.)The Pobst video in the turbo show its limitations. I suspect with enough camber, it might be possible to dial out that push. He was not aggressive and the 1:35 neighborhood suggests he was leaving time on the table. Maybe the "MAXX" tires (has anyone used them?) don't cope with the weight or power and heat impact. I was hoping he'd be given time to get settled in the car and run a smooth, aggressive lap.

I didn't take your comments as antagonistic at all. I think the replies you got were an attempt to fend off "yet another forum paddock race" ... : )

Carrera GT

That is the "correct" line, keeping the right away from the drain, but there's a new pothole there, just behind and to the right of the berm, so you have to commit. A good line off the top and the landing is a neat compression. A little too far right and the landing is an ugly belly flop, dead cat bounce and then a squirm as PASM says "what happened?!"

TRAKCAR

I was warned about that but never felt it :-)

Got way off in the first days, but eventually kept the 2 whells on :-)

I Musta been flyin over that pothole previous days, not so much committing, just ending up there in a controlled crash and got lucky.

PASM?

wanna911

Not really extraordinary, more like IMSA challenge. It's usually the most consistent measure of performance if you are going to include cup times. Not all Patrick Long's but plenty of fast guys running in the platinum class. It's more indicative of what a cup car can actually do at the max. Some of these guys run just behind or sometime equal to the Leh Keens, Damien Faulkners, Andy Lallys, Spencer Pumpellys of the world.

I don't usually count regular dudes in cups (unless they turn laps close to pro times) because you can never tell how good the driver is. James Sofronas' brother ran a 1:32 I think in a gutted 996 GT3. Faieta certainly qualifies as a guy I'd usually count, but with IMSA cup there, you can get a good gauge of what the car can do in very skilled pro/semi pro/amateur drivers hands. In fact, Faieta was running with IMSA at one point. I think he was in the slower cups though (pre 2010) in the gold cup.


Here are the qualy results from 2011
http://www.imsatiming.com/results/20...Qualifying.pdf