CarObsessed

Oh, so 31-50mph nothing? I didn't know that...

hf1

No, 31-50mph, coin-flip. Could go either way.

Petevb

I'd certainly be very interested to know what the car could do with RWS. Some would argue it's not needed, and that might be true, but I suspect if they did fit RWS the car would be unbelievable at the autocross. I'm not getting my hopes up, however- a quick look at the "track rod" suggests its a different length than the 991, so unless they are willing to do some more extensive re-engineering for a one-off model, which is not really there style, I'd think it will stay on the shelf.
That certainly seems in the ballpark +/- 5k or 5 hp. Or if they made it 400 hp I might expect it to cost 100k.

For fun I looked at power to weight vs $ for Porsche's current lineup, and some pretty obvious trends drop out. Porsche clearly has a pricing strategy driven from something like this metric, and judging from their profit margins it keeps their customers happy. Below are current Porsche sports cars plotted by power to weight ratio, with MSRP on a log scale:


Cars above the line, like the GT3, for example, are particularly "good value" (if you believe power to weight is a good) because the give you more "bang for the buck" than usual. And interestingly this line seems at least slightly timeless- Porsche improves their car's power to weight at about 2% per year, like inflation, but due to actual inflation costs have been going up roughly as fast. Thus over the last couple decades the trend line only seems to move around slowly- and old RS America or Carrera GT are below the line only by roughly as much as a new GT3 is above it.

So where would our Cayman GT4 come in at these speculated prices? Assuming 375 hp and a little weight loss, an 85k base GT4 would be a bit further above the line than the GT3. This might suggest that price is a little light for that power rating, and 90k might be a more realistic expectation? It's also interesting to speculate on the GT3 RS- 500 hp and 180k with a little weight loss is almost exactly on the line, not as "good a deal" as the GT3 by this metric. 515 hp and 175k, as shown, would be roughly as much above the line as the GT3.

The old 997 RS 4.0 and 3.8 were both exactly on the line, so the new GT3 does seem to represent a particularly "good deal" in the Porsche sports car world.

I wonder if the GT group was recently given an exemption to compete with other manufactures, who have clearly not playing by the same rules as Porsche does? Porsche customers are clearly pretty happy with the overall value balance, but just for fun I've put a base Z06 in below as well. Makes interesting food for thought:

vantage

Nice data Pete. Cayman feels more engineered to meet a price point than other models for some reason. Perhaps because it's a middle child.

sin911

Geez, someone put a lot of time and effort into these charts. It's actually very interesting, unless you've done the work I never would have thought there'd be a linear curve to it.

<3mph

Very cool analysis, I agree! However, it is a logarithmic scale on the x-axis, so not a completely linear relationship in the usual sense.

I wonder if the 960 will also conform to the line. Based on some guesses (650 hp, 3000 lb), this yields a power:weight ratio of 433, which would mean it could perform at a $500-600K level. If it comes in at around $270K it could be a real performance bargain!

ranger22

With all the turbos showing up soon, the line is about to shift north.

Fadi1

I'm on the list of my dealer for a GT4, if an when it will be released. but only if a manual transmission is available, AND if the engine is NA

montoya

Pete, great analysis, I'm sure that chart is displayed somewhere in Weissach!

The Z06 data point is incredible, I can just imagine the conversation:

"Dieter, what is this point on the chart?"

"Ing. Preuninger that is the Z06 you asked me to put on the chart."

"Something is wrong Dieter, are your sums correct?"

"Yes, sir- here they are"

(Pause, Andreas uses his I phone calculator, rubs his forehead and frowns.)

"Stupid cowboys! GM has lost their mind, this pricing is ridiculous! Get the advanced engine team in my office right away! Tell them to bring me their work on the new turbo engine line up!"

Petevb

Thanks guys...

I decided to follow this tangent, and rather than sink this thread I started another. Found here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/...tatistics.html

Noah Fect

"Was ist eine 'Z06', Dieter? Ich weiss es nicht."

Fixed it for you, no charge this time, drive through...

SteveInNj

I hope it is not the case, but I believe that the GT4 will come in just shy of 400hp but with the 4cyl turbo. If the 911s are going turbo in 2015, I think that Porsche is making a concerted effort to go green and will start right away, this car included. Either way, I will be happy with my BGTS. But as stated, I hope to be completely wrong and get bashed for thinking turbo. It would be great to see (and hear) the NA GT4 on the track.

Drifting

I dunno. I think the GT4 is being produced for several reasons. Racing homologation, to produce a cayman halo car and so increase downstream cayman sales, and finally as a pure drivers car for the Porsche faithful, who were turned off by the PDK and RWS of the GT3, and so were considering leaving Porsche for a manual corvette, camaro, or viper.

I think the GT4 will have a manual option, 5-lug option , and no RWS.

I think that the regular Boxsters/caymans are where Porche will introduce the first turbo engines, but the GT4 and GT3 will stay NA, which they can because of their relatively small production numbers, compare to the "regular" cayman and 911 models.

Manifold

Is it actually confirmed that a street-legal Cayman GT4 (or whatever it'll be called) will be produced? I could be mistaken, but I thought the latest rumor was about producing a factory Cayman race car.

NateOZ

If you go to the porsche driving website (https://www.porschedriving.com/exper...ng-experiences), the Cayman GT4 is actually listed on the car selector now. If it is a factory race car - it could be the replacement to the old cup car school program that is now done...