nuvolari612

Good information but no production numbers.

Have to admit Porsche does one heck of a job offering small changes more surprising is how well it works.

MM3.9GT3

AP is a very accomplished gentleman. He has engineering responsibility for the GT program, but he also has sales responsibility because his products have to be purchased by us. He is a master salesman. Why? Because he is selling his products each, and every day in a very positive, non-offensive manner, always talking about the features, functions, and benefits of the new model.

JasonAndreas

Porsche spends hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars to design an engine that will be manufactured at production quantities. This is just a minor revision, basically a tweak no different to what they did when going from the Mezger M64.01 to the M64.05 (but there they went the opposite way and started using hydraulic valve lashers). There have always been major/minor revisions to every engine Porsche has produced and this is no different.

Spyder Man

The new GT3 sales itself with the 4L 9K rpm 500hp race derived engine and also for many the 6MT option!


AP's talk on the advancements made on the new GT3 are all backed up with relevant technical explanations so I wouldn't call it a sales pitch presentation.


Would anyone else be able to give presentation on the new car in a none sales pitch tone? Please try here and let us gauge if you are indeed more down to earth than AP.

robmypro

I think like everything else with these cars, evolution, not revolution.

Airbag997

Minor revision? Let's agree to disagree. Fundamental design changes have been implemented, keyword being fundamental.

There are plenty of nervous .1 GT3 owners out there, and for good reason. Let's see how many keep theirs out of warranty...time will tell.

You can downplay it all you want. But the fact Porsche has implemented so many fundamental changes, and more importantly so quickly, is in itself an indirect admission of fault. They may never publicly acknowledge they have catastrophic design issues, but the proof is in the pudding with the new design.

My theory with what potentially happened at the GT division was the MBA toting bean-counters started making engineering decisions leveraged more with profit than reliability in mind. Once they realized they made a catastrophic error they gave the decision making power back to AP. The return of the manual transmission and the complete redesign of the 9A1 are indicative to that theory.

Waxer

Well then the Mezger was a catastrophic error since it is a hydraulic valve train engine in street guise. Again, and I repeat nearly every single high performance street track car has hydraulic valve train. Find me one that's not.

I think the new valve train is a tacit admission that they can't get a hydraulic valve trainrev to 9000 RPM without maintain maintenance issues over the long run .

robmypro

Look at it this way. The 991.1 GT3 cars are not going to somehow disappear. Ultimately, like every GT3, they will eventually be out of warranty. Companies will come out with fixes to address any shortcomings, just like they have in the past. Look at what Dundon is doing. Eventually we'll have power kits and revised top ends to choose from. That doesn't even consider the likely goodwill fixes that Porsche will provide.

I don't see the logic in taking a big hit selling mine and then buying another GT3 for something that may or may not even be an issue. Besides, we have no idea what demons the new GT3 will have. I have plenty of warranty left. No need to act at this stage. Car's amazing.

I also don't blame anyone for selling. Each of us have to make our own personal decision.

Airbag997

Hydraulic versus Solid lifters is not an issue with the Mezger because it doesn't have anywhere near the same stresses/engine speeds. Apples and oranges comparison.

E46 M3/S54. There's one from recent memory.

Solid lifters is a superior valvetrain design for high RPM motors because there is substantially less drag/weight on the valves. Which equates to less stress and wear and higher allowable engine speed, as well as faster engine acceleration. Up until now it's primary con was maintenance interval. Porsche appears to have remedied that with unobtanium from Pandora.

Look at every high performance superbike on the market today (Aprilia RSV4, BMW S1000RR), most (if not all) utilize solid lifters because it's superior for achieving high RPM.

Airbag997

Agreed.

Hopefully the G revision mitigates the premature wear/stresses to a level that is acceptable, i.e., >100k miles life. Time will tell.

robmypro

Based on what I saw from the newest G heads, I doubt it. The lack of oiling on the intake side is still there on the new heads. Take a look at pictures of the finger followers. The ones I have seen are definitely wearing on the intake side. Get more oil there and the problem should be resolved. Fortunately it looks like Dundon has a good grasp of the problem.

Waxer

No question that if you want to go 9000 rpm and up solids is the best way to go. I agree. However and again, most high performance cars today and many race cars use hydraulics. Most high performance cars today don't spin to 9000. The new FPC GT350 spins only to 8200 I believe. What a "better" valve train depends on application, use and needs. Hydraulic is better depending on application, use and needs.

I do give you kudos for finding one solid lifter set up though. Figured one was out there without having to go back to the 60's.

Hydraulics were and aren't an issue for most high performance cars and race cars today depending on the speeds you are spinning the engine. Again, 2015 GT3R ran the 991RS engine. Straght from one of the PAG web site from 2015. There are others that repeat the same:

[I]Powering the new 911 GT3 R is a cutting-edge four-litre flat-six unit which is largely identical to the high-performance production engine of the road-legal 911 GT3 RS. Direct petrol injection, which operates at pressures up to 200 bar, as well as variable valve timing technology ensure a particularly efficient use of fuel. Moreover, the normally-aspirated engine offers significantly better driveability and a broader usable rev range. Power from the rear engine is transferred to the 310 mm rear wheels via a Porsche sequential six-speed constant-mesh gearbox. As in the GT road-going models of the 911, the driver changes gears via shift paddles conveniently positioned on the steering wheel.



2015 GT3R, GT3RS and 911R 4.0L lumps are great lumps. No issues. Moreover they are Trakcar tested!

As I said, PAG realized trying to spin to 9000 rpm with hydraulics especially with a smaller 3.8L carried some/created long term reliability issues which is why they revised the 4.0L extensively (per AP they went all through the engine) for the RS and R including new valve springs, new cam profile, revised oiling and crucially lowered rpm limits to 8500 rpm. The 2015 GT3R also had a 8600 rpm limit.

New GT4 Cup also runs hydraulic valves. New Mustang GT4 also runs hydraulic valves. Boss 302 S & R run hydraulic valves. Many others. Its a very good valve train provided you don't go beyond the capabilities of a hydraulic set up.

PAG obvoiusly wants to push back up to 9000 rpms and to do so reliably long term solids are the best bet plus it leaves meat on the bone to go further.

I am excited to see where they take this new lump. It clearly has alot of potential with solids.

Alexey21

We can speculate all we want as to which parts are different from the .1 to the .2, but until we get a "parts catalogue" we won't know for sure. So far, this engine is an evolution of the .1 and is not an entirely brand new spanking engine as we saw with the release of the 991 GT3 compared to the Mezger.

Airbag997

Exactly.

This why the .2 GT3 has solid lifters. Also why the Porsche RSR race car utilizes solid lifters, and the most powerful liter bike (S1KRR) on the planet which put's out 200 bhp per liter. It's superior for high RPM race engines.

"Hydraulic lifters are for grandmas." -AP

Airbag997

So, by your logic, all the official press releases and recorded interviews with AP are simply speculative?

The fundamental changes to the oiling system, valvetrain design, engine materials, crankshaft, etc, is all factual information. Unless, Porsche has decided to publicly distribute misinformation, there is no "speculation".