Porsche's new philosophy with the GT3 according to AP
03-22-2017, 01:46 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
The article confirms .2 3RS in the works. So, if AP and his team are making a GT2 and or GT2RS, no way the .2 3RS is FI. It will be NA. There's no market space for two FI GT cars. Not even for Porsche.
03-22-2017, 01:49 PM
#32
Race Director
"Amazing" in the context of the symphonic journey to the 9k redline, or amazing that Porsche released a relatively unproven and unreliable engine with fundamental design issues?
Everyone makes mistakes, even Porsche. But the mere fact that they completely redesigned major fundamental aspects of the engine should be a red flag to every 9A1 GT3 owner. Especially considering the 9A1 lasted only half of a 911 design cycle before Porsche essentially redesigned the entire motor. How long was the Mezger in production again?
Everyone makes mistakes, even Porsche. But the mere fact that they completely redesigned major fundamental aspects of the engine should be a red flag to every 9A1 GT3 owner. Especially considering the 9A1 lasted only half of a 911 design cycle before Porsche essentially redesigned the entire motor. How long was the Mezger in production again?
03-22-2017, 02:00 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
More or less.
The heads are a entirely different design (solid lifters). Different/more exotic materials in the block for the cylinder walls and piston rings. Entirely revised oiling system, and crank design. It's a "Revolution" not "Evolution" in terms of engineering design.
The heads are a entirely different design (solid lifters). Different/more exotic materials in the block for the cylinder walls and piston rings. Entirely revised oiling system, and crank design. It's a "Revolution" not "Evolution" in terms of engineering design.
03-22-2017, 02:40 PM
#34
We shall see. As soon as I can convince the wife to dump her awful Q7, I'm going to try to get her into a Macan GTS. But if I don't get a GT3 allocation, that ain't gonna happen. I'm just going to move on to another brand and Porsche will never see another dime from me. I'll probably keep my C2S and just have it serviced at my local indy shop go forward.
03-22-2017, 02:46 PM
#35
Race Director
More or less.
The heads are a entirely different design (solid lifters). Different/more exotic materials in the block for the cylinder walls and piston rings. Entirely revised oiling system, and crank design. It's a "Revolution" not "Evolution" in terms of engineering design.
The heads are a entirely different design (solid lifters). Different/more exotic materials in the block for the cylinder walls and piston rings. Entirely revised oiling system, and crank design. It's a "Revolution" not "Evolution" in terms of engineering design.
03-22-2017, 03:33 PM
#36
It does seem that Porsche is going the right direction by implementing their racing engines into their road going cars. I wonder how much of the internals differ from the racing engines.
03-22-2017, 03:57 PM
#37
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by Alexey21
I wonder how much of the internals differ from the racing engines.
As always if you know Porsche,there are quite a few differences. But most will never know. They only way to know is to run your own race shop and buy engines and/or internals directly from Porsche Motorsports.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves here : the street cars share the same engines,but I can guarantee you there are differences. They were in Mezger too. Right now it's all marketing talk from AP because he is VERY aware of what we want to hear.
NO MATTER,this is the best NA,DFI,high revving engine Porsche was capable of producing right now! And it's the one to have! When it comes to reliability,it will certainly need to prove itself!
03-22-2017, 04:17 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
The new Cup laps Sebring 2.5-3 seconds faster than the previous one. That comes down to power, aero, and tires. But lets face it, the bulk of that is coming from power, a lot more power. This new motor is a beast. It makes considerably more torque under the curve than the Mezger, and still screams up top.
This is probably the closest thing to a full race engine that Porsche has ever offered in modern times, for a street car.
There is still plenty of meat on the bone in this engine, and I expect they will run with it for another full generation of GT3 and RS. I've said this before, they race, but they also sell street cars. Virtually no other premium manufacturer is offering NA sports cars, they are filling the vacuum, and doing it with their high profit models. Don't expect them to quit selling NA GT cars anytime soon. Thank god.
Now if only we could get those dame individual throttle bodies.
This is probably the closest thing to a full race engine that Porsche has ever offered in modern times, for a street car.
There is still plenty of meat on the bone in this engine, and I expect they will run with it for another full generation of GT3 and RS. I've said this before, they race, but they also sell street cars. Virtually no other premium manufacturer is offering NA sports cars, they are filling the vacuum, and doing it with their high profit models. Don't expect them to quit selling NA GT cars anytime soon. Thank god.
Now if only we could get those dame individual throttle bodies.
03-22-2017, 04:23 PM
#39
Three Wheelin'
The new Cup laps Sebring 2.5-3 seconds faster than the previous one. That comes down to power, aero, and tires. But lets face it, the bulk of that is coming from power, a lot more power. This new motor is a beast. It makes considerably more torque under the curve than the Mezger, and still screams up top.
This is probably the closest thing to a full race engine that Porsche has ever offered in modern times, for a street car.
There is still plenty of meat on the bone in this engine, and I expect they will run with it for another full generation of GT3 and RS. I've said this before, they race, but they also sell street cars. Virtually no other premium manufacturer is offering NA sports cars, they are filling the vacuum, and doing it with their high profit models. Don't expect them to quit selling NA GT cars anytime soon. Thank god.
Now if only we could get those dame individual throttle bodies.
This is probably the closest thing to a full race engine that Porsche has ever offered in modern times, for a street car.
There is still plenty of meat on the bone in this engine, and I expect they will run with it for another full generation of GT3 and RS. I've said this before, they race, but they also sell street cars. Virtually no other premium manufacturer is offering NA sports cars, they are filling the vacuum, and doing it with their high profit models. Don't expect them to quit selling NA GT cars anytime soon. Thank god.
Now if only we could get those dame individual throttle bodies.
Couldn't have said it any better myself.
03-22-2017, 05:21 PM
#40
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
03-22-2017, 05:46 PM
#42
Drifting
The new Cup laps Sebring 2.5-3 seconds faster than the previous one. That comes down to power, aero, and tires. But lets face it, the bulk of that is coming from power, a lot more power. This new motor is a beast. It makes considerably more torque under the curve than the Mezger, and still screams up top.
This is probably the closest thing to a full race engine that Porsche has ever offered in modern times, for a street car.
There is still plenty of meat on the bone in this engine, and I expect they will run with it for another full generation of GT3 and RS. I've said this before, they race, but they also sell street cars. Virtually no other premium manufacturer is offering NA sports cars, they are filling the vacuum, and doing it with their high profit models. Don't expect them to quit selling NA GT cars anytime soon. Thank god.
Now if only we could get those dame individual throttle bodies.
This is probably the closest thing to a full race engine that Porsche has ever offered in modern times, for a street car.
There is still plenty of meat on the bone in this engine, and I expect they will run with it for another full generation of GT3 and RS. I've said this before, they race, but they also sell street cars. Virtually no other premium manufacturer is offering NA sports cars, they are filling the vacuum, and doing it with their high profit models. Don't expect them to quit selling NA GT cars anytime soon. Thank god.
Now if only we could get those dame individual throttle bodies.
03-23-2017, 12:00 AM
#43
Nordschleife Master
The new engine is much the same as the last gen. except for solid lifter set up and some improvement in materials and 4.0. It's a 9A1 design and derived. It's no Mezger except for it's solid lifter relation in race application. Old Metzger was hydraulic lifter lump in street 997 GT3/RS. GT4 & GT4 Cup is hydraulic 3.8 lump. Porsche Motorsport 2015 GT3R utilized 991GT3RS engine as noted on Porsches own website. Clearly previous gen. 9A1 has Motorsport heritage and connection. Most every high performance street/track car is hydraulically valved today from Alfa to Zonda.
Main advantage of solids is ability to rev higher but adjustments were required unlike self adjusting hydraulics. If PAG did figure way to have a solid valve train that never needs adjustment that would be a first. I hope they did. Let's see.
If PAG wasn't always improving we wouldn't buy anymore cars from them.
Main advantage of solids is ability to rev higher but adjustments were required unlike self adjusting hydraulics. If PAG did figure way to have a solid valve train that never needs adjustment that would be a first. I hope they did. Let's see.
If PAG wasn't always improving we wouldn't buy anymore cars from them.
03-23-2017, 09:12 AM
#44
For those of us that love our GT cars, we listen to every word that AP states. He is the man. At the 2015 Geneva show he was interviewed about the then new GT3RS. In that interview AP spoke in detail about how great the engine was. A crank made of the same light weight material found in the 919 ("Space ship material"). "Different Con Rods", "Pistons", "Cam Springs", "Heads"and "Oil System". To bring it all home he said a "Conservative 500 HP, a little bit more actually'. I think we were all sold then, as we are now with Porsche's new latest and greatest GT car.
03-23-2017, 09:35 AM
#45
Nordschleife Master
Bingo. What do you expect him to say? "our last GT was much better than this heap"?
See post #40 in the thread "Why no R 4.0 in .2GT3". video is posted there along with R vid where he tells us engines are great and very similar to race lumps. Quotes from PAG website to as to lumps used in 2015 GT3R and Car & Driver quotes.
I would just post link but don't know how on my iPad.
See post #40 in the thread "Why no R 4.0 in .2GT3". video is posted there along with R vid where he tells us engines are great and very similar to race lumps. Quotes from PAG website to as to lumps used in 2015 GT3R and Car & Driver quotes.
I would just post link but don't know how on my iPad.