GT3 To 570S
12-15-2016, 09:58 AM
#16
Lol at comments. The new McLarens are probably the most advanced engineered sports cars on the market. Nobody is offering what McLaren is for anywhere close to the price right now. Yea the 3.8 is getting old IMO, but the cars are incredible. The 570 looks excellent in certain colors. One track drive in a new McLaren and its blatantly obvious that they are killing the game. The 570 actually feels similar to the mid engine Ferrari's on the track. My opinion of course.
But...I'm biased towards the GT3. If you're gonna go for something more expensive, get an RS. We wont have these types of Porsche's for long.
But...I'm biased towards the GT3. If you're gonna go for something more expensive, get an RS. We wont have these types of Porsche's for long.
12-15-2016, 10:07 AM
#17
Drifting
Lol at comments. The new McLarens are probably the most advanced engineered sports cars on the market. Nobody is offering what McLaren is for anywhere close to the price right now. Yea the 3.8 is getting old IMO, but the cars are incredible. The 570 looks excellent in certain colors. One track drive in a new McLaren and its blatantly obvious that they are killing the game. The 570 actually feels similar to the mid engine Ferrari's on the track. My opinion of course.
But...I'm biased towards the GT3. If you're gonna go for something more expensive, get an RS. We wont have these types of Porsche's for long.
But...I'm biased towards the GT3. If you're gonna go for something more expensive, get an RS. We wont have these types of Porsche's for long.
Fit and finish is very good as is their engineering. But they also had a lot of problems early on and over produced for the amount of dealerships which was their biggest mistake.
I don't think they are killing the game - 458 Speciale and 488 are more than equal as is Lambo Audi Mercedes etc.
NA RS is a good choice.
12-15-2016, 10:29 AM
#18
What are people's thoughts on the P14? I personally love what I see so far. Rumor is a 4.0L with 720hp and lighter than the 650S.
12-15-2016, 10:38 AM
#20
if that is the guy you are taking advice from ....
ok on a real note here for real people, all "non-serial number" cars tend to drop once they are used. the only reason why ferraris hold their value at all is because owners are scared to sell them, which gives the dealers a chance to choke the supply.
the only cars that hold value from ferrari are the special edition cars- you can get a 458 coupe, used with less than 5k miles on it, for 50-75k less than sticker and those things at one point sold for 50k OVER. That's a 100k hit easy.
A 911 turbo will go from 200k to 145k in 2 years (there are 2 for sale now on RL classifieds).
the used 650S market is somewhere in the 220-265k range depending on the options, color, etc. Some colors are harder to re-sell. So if the cars went from 300k to 220k over 2 years and 10k miles or 250k after 1 year and 5k miles that's the same type of drop that everything else takes.
I think the biggest issue with the mclarens is that there are not that many dealers, of course they make less than 3000 mclarens a year worldwide, so not a lot of volume to go around.
In a non-biased inside track- if you live in the San Fran, Newport Beach, Scottsdale, Dallas, Philly or NY/NJ area you have a great McLaren dealer there. If you live outside of those regions, you will have a mixed experience.
ok on a real note here for real people, all "non-serial number" cars tend to drop once they are used. the only reason why ferraris hold their value at all is because owners are scared to sell them, which gives the dealers a chance to choke the supply.
the only cars that hold value from ferrari are the special edition cars- you can get a 458 coupe, used with less than 5k miles on it, for 50-75k less than sticker and those things at one point sold for 50k OVER. That's a 100k hit easy.
A 911 turbo will go from 200k to 145k in 2 years (there are 2 for sale now on RL classifieds).
the used 650S market is somewhere in the 220-265k range depending on the options, color, etc. Some colors are harder to re-sell. So if the cars went from 300k to 220k over 2 years and 10k miles or 250k after 1 year and 5k miles that's the same type of drop that everything else takes.
I think the biggest issue with the mclarens is that there are not that many dealers, of course they make less than 3000 mclarens a year worldwide, so not a lot of volume to go around.
In a non-biased inside track- if you live in the San Fran, Newport Beach, Scottsdale, Dallas, Philly or NY/NJ area you have a great McLaren dealer there. If you live outside of those regions, you will have a mixed experience.
12-15-2016, 11:01 AM
#21
Rennlist Member
if that is the guy you are taking advice from ....
ok on a real note here for real people, all "non-serial number" cars tend to drop once they are used. the only reason why ferraris hold their value at all is because owners are scared to sell them, which gives the dealers a chance to choke the supply.
the only cars that hold value from ferrari are the special edition cars- you can get a 458 coupe, used with less than 5k miles on it, for 50-75k less than sticker and those things at one point sold for 50k OVER. That's a 100k hit easy.
A 911 turbo will go from 200k to 145k in 2 years (there are 2 for sale now on RL classifieds).
the used 650S market is somewhere in the 220-265k range depending on the options, color, etc. Some colors are harder to re-sell. So if the cars went from 300k to 220k over 2 years and 10k miles or 250k after 1 year and 5k miles that's the same type of drop that everything else takes.
I think the biggest issue with the mclarens is that there are not that many dealers, of course they make less than 3000 mclarens a year worldwide, so not a lot of volume to go around.
In a non-biased inside track- if you live in the San Fran, Newport Beach, Scottsdale, Dallas, Philly or NY/NJ area you have a great McLaren dealer there. If you live outside of those regions, you will have a mixed experience.
ok on a real note here for real people, all "non-serial number" cars tend to drop once they are used. the only reason why ferraris hold their value at all is because owners are scared to sell them, which gives the dealers a chance to choke the supply.
the only cars that hold value from ferrari are the special edition cars- you can get a 458 coupe, used with less than 5k miles on it, for 50-75k less than sticker and those things at one point sold for 50k OVER. That's a 100k hit easy.
A 911 turbo will go from 200k to 145k in 2 years (there are 2 for sale now on RL classifieds).
the used 650S market is somewhere in the 220-265k range depending on the options, color, etc. Some colors are harder to re-sell. So if the cars went from 300k to 220k over 2 years and 10k miles or 250k after 1 year and 5k miles that's the same type of drop that everything else takes.
I think the biggest issue with the mclarens is that there are not that many dealers, of course they make less than 3000 mclarens a year worldwide, so not a lot of volume to go around.
In a non-biased inside track- if you live in the San Fran, Newport Beach, Scottsdale, Dallas, Philly or NY/NJ area you have a great McLaren dealer there. If you live outside of those regions, you will have a mixed experience.
12-15-2016, 11:15 AM
#22
To very directly answer your question, Matt here on the fourum (ducati1199) just went from GT3 to 570s.. he just took delivery two weeks ago. Send him a PM, great great guy, will give you his perspective.
I drove a 570s and was blown away by the chassis, compliant suspension, good power and best in class steering feel. Seems well made.. just not a car id buy new.
I drove a 570s and was blown away by the chassis, compliant suspension, good power and best in class steering feel. Seems well made.. just not a car id buy new.
I also think the whole depreciation issue is artificially made up based on a lot of factors.
12-15-2016, 11:46 AM
#23
Their "Track22" program is focused on bringing 15 new models to market over the next 6 years. All of them sports cars or limited production. http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/mo...ction-hyper-gt
I think the ethos of McLaren is inline with the ethos of GT3 owners. At least it is in the way I view my life and business. I'm always looking for where I can make improvement and not just putting out what will get by, but by being #1.
Just my .02.
CJ, can share any thoughts on how the 570S compares to the GT3 on track? I am contemplating switching to the 570S and i am one of the lucky ones living reasonably close to the Philly dealership. Due to the low number of people tracking these cars there is not a lot of user experience and the small number of reports i have read seem to indicate its a better road car that track car.
I would like to also hear CJ take on the 570S. I've been tempted to jump on a nice MEX blue looking 570GT- MSO Fistral Blue.
12-15-2016, 12:06 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
cj's points are valid
570s/gt depreciation rate is unknown at this point as the models are recently on market... given the lower new price entry point, i would assume decline rate would be similar to 991/997 tt's
i have not driven the 570s on track but plenty on road, it is a very sweet car, tremendous power on boost (notably more so than a 991gt3rs for instance), mid engine magic and equal sense of lightness/stiffness. there is some turbo lag off idle but if you keep the revs up by selecting the correct drive mode it is fine... same is the case in keeping revs up in a na 9a1 if you want meat of powerband
to me mclaren's continuing weakness is their poor brake feel... not braking performance (esp with ccb's), but feel, as in when trying to precisely modulate braking when driving intently... it is very different than pag gt cars feel and frankly the porsches really spoil us in this regard with their vast superiority
handling wise and suspension feel wise the mclaren is awesome... the 570s has a little of the stiff-springs jounciness that is missing in the fluid-suspended 650s/12c's, so it has a more traditional sporty car feel with excellent body control ... you definitely sense it is a car made my passionate engineers who are coming up the styling curve fast... all in all a very exciting very fast high quality car... if you have $250k to spend on a 570s or 991gt3rs... it is an interesting choice... if you care less about porsche heritage then i say go 570s... it is newer more exciting very different and outstanding but it is not really a track rat.... if you like $$ - enjoy slower depreciation, really track a lot, and have to have an RS, then do that... if you really want an RS like many on this board do, then frankly nothing else matters
570s/gt depreciation rate is unknown at this point as the models are recently on market... given the lower new price entry point, i would assume decline rate would be similar to 991/997 tt's
i have not driven the 570s on track but plenty on road, it is a very sweet car, tremendous power on boost (notably more so than a 991gt3rs for instance), mid engine magic and equal sense of lightness/stiffness. there is some turbo lag off idle but if you keep the revs up by selecting the correct drive mode it is fine... same is the case in keeping revs up in a na 9a1 if you want meat of powerband
to me mclaren's continuing weakness is their poor brake feel... not braking performance (esp with ccb's), but feel, as in when trying to precisely modulate braking when driving intently... it is very different than pag gt cars feel and frankly the porsches really spoil us in this regard with their vast superiority
handling wise and suspension feel wise the mclaren is awesome... the 570s has a little of the stiff-springs jounciness that is missing in the fluid-suspended 650s/12c's, so it has a more traditional sporty car feel with excellent body control ... you definitely sense it is a car made my passionate engineers who are coming up the styling curve fast... all in all a very exciting very fast high quality car... if you have $250k to spend on a 570s or 991gt3rs... it is an interesting choice... if you care less about porsche heritage then i say go 570s... it is newer more exciting very different and outstanding but it is not really a track rat.... if you like $$ - enjoy slower depreciation, really track a lot, and have to have an RS, then do that... if you really want an RS like many on this board do, then frankly nothing else matters
Last edited by golfnutintib; 12-15-2016 at 06:53 PM.
12-15-2016, 12:07 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
the 570 was designed specially as a competitor to the 911 Turbo S and is not track focused like the 650S or 675LT. The suspension is softer and not as complex as the 650/675, and it weighs more.
The 570 is designed to be a daily or fun weekend car not a track car, again like a 911 Turbo.
If you never plan to go to the track or only track 1-2 times per year, similar to most 911 Turbo owners, then the 570 is a good choice.
However, if you track your GT3 regularly and looking to trade it for another car to take the track regularly, the 570 is not a good choice, and I would look at a 650S or 675LT
Also good point by golfnutintib about the brakes. I experienced the same issues when tracking a friends Mclaren 12c a couple years ago, and it really subracted from the otherwise fun experience of driving it on a track. Sounds like the 570 has the same bakes issues, but then again its not designed for the track.
I wonder how the brakes compare on the 650 and particularly the 675LT? I would think Mclaren got some negative feedback on the brakes in the 12c and hopefully addressed this on the 650S/675LT?
The 570 is designed to be a daily or fun weekend car not a track car, again like a 911 Turbo.
If you never plan to go to the track or only track 1-2 times per year, similar to most 911 Turbo owners, then the 570 is a good choice.
However, if you track your GT3 regularly and looking to trade it for another car to take the track regularly, the 570 is not a good choice, and I would look at a 650S or 675LT
Also good point by golfnutintib about the brakes. I experienced the same issues when tracking a friends Mclaren 12c a couple years ago, and it really subracted from the otherwise fun experience of driving it on a track. Sounds like the 570 has the same bakes issues, but then again its not designed for the track.
I wonder how the brakes compare on the 650 and particularly the 675LT? I would think Mclaren got some negative feedback on the brakes in the 12c and hopefully addressed this on the 650S/675LT?
12-15-2016, 12:39 PM
#27
Racer
If depreciation is a concern, the 570S probably is not the right choice. McLaren makes great cars but there are a couple of things that reduce residual values.
A. Not everyone has a dealership near them. That shrinks the pool of buyers for a given car.
B. Too early for there to be enough independent shops to make up the gap.
C. Production volumes haven't been limited enough(IMO), which has led to some dealer discounting which further depresses values (at least in the case of the 650S).
D. Still some quality issues although McLarens don't seem to be too out of line with the average supercar in that respect. But persistent issues with the 12C will drive some buyers away from future models
E. Nameplate doesn't have the following of Porsche or Ferrari yet, so there's not a built up base of customers for the cars.
On the plus side McLaren has a factory lease program that can help anchor residuals to a degree. The cars present a very strong performance value proposition. The 570S can keep up with anything in this class while running on relatively skinny tires (in a street compound vs track day compound). So demand might keep 570S values strongish for awhile. At the same time there are a lot of cars vying for buyers in that class and if the economy takes a dip, the 570S is not gonna hold its value the way a GT3 or GT3RS would.
A. Not everyone has a dealership near them. That shrinks the pool of buyers for a given car.
B. Too early for there to be enough independent shops to make up the gap.
C. Production volumes haven't been limited enough(IMO), which has led to some dealer discounting which further depresses values (at least in the case of the 650S).
D. Still some quality issues although McLarens don't seem to be too out of line with the average supercar in that respect. But persistent issues with the 12C will drive some buyers away from future models
E. Nameplate doesn't have the following of Porsche or Ferrari yet, so there's not a built up base of customers for the cars.
On the plus side McLaren has a factory lease program that can help anchor residuals to a degree. The cars present a very strong performance value proposition. The 570S can keep up with anything in this class while running on relatively skinny tires (in a street compound vs track day compound). So demand might keep 570S values strongish for awhile. At the same time there are a lot of cars vying for buyers in that class and if the economy takes a dip, the 570S is not gonna hold its value the way a GT3 or GT3RS would.
12-15-2016, 12:43 PM
#28
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Excellent feedback! I appreciate everyone's time on the subject. I'm definitely torn but, financially keeping a GT3 around is a lot more economical. You can always find a buyer for a nice 3 (RS) but as someone mentioned above, you may be stuck working with a dealer to sell a Mac. I love the idea of a special weekend car like the 570 but there is something that an NA Porsche brings that might not be replaceable. I've got a C7 Z06 to appeal to my redneck side so maybe I should just be happy for a change, haha.
12-15-2016, 12:50 PM
#29
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One additional RS question. Is the market softening a bit? I considered one of those as well but it looks like there are quite a few sitting on lots locally (Atlanta). I've had my eye on a silver one for a bit and it is literally sitting. Although the $249K asking price my be the culprit also.
12-15-2016, 01:58 PM
#30
Drifting
or wait until the 570LT but it may take a 570 purchase to get a place in line.
Ferrari Porsche we all know their succession plan - street model coupe then spider next a track focus model limited which equates to less depreciation.
Mclaren Life is an excellent forum - go there everyone tells it like it is.
Ferrari Porsche we all know their succession plan - street model coupe then spider next a track focus model limited which equates to less depreciation.
Mclaren Life is an excellent forum - go there everyone tells it like it is.