911R Driving Impressions
10-13-2016, 04:41 PM
#31
Nordschleife Master
A few more comments…
....................
Compared to a current 991 GT3 RS, this car is a lot more special to me. Both for what it actually is, and for what it represents.
What it is, is a hot-rodded manual road-oriented version of the RS – lighter, slimmer, rawer (to me), manual gears, light flywheel, etc. And from my experience of owning both cars, the R’s acceleration feels to me like that of a 550 hp RS. While the RS has the advantage of launch control and immediate gear shifts, the R accelerates noticeably harder within gear.
What it represents is, is what makes the R truly special. For me, the RS is simply the latest in a line of track weapons among which there is significant lineage in the form of every previous RS, and a number of alternatives – regular GT3, Speciale, 675 LT, etc. With the R, there is no previous version or obvious alternatives (unless you bother to look at prevoius generation GT3s and GT3RS's) – IMHO if you want a raw hot-rod manual road weapon, there is nothing else even close. To me the R is almost as exciting as a CGT but a lot more fun without the grim reaper waiting to pounce at any wrong move.
IMHO The GT4 is a puppy, the CGT a lion, and the R a thoroughbred.
....................
Compared to a current 991 GT3 RS, this car is a lot more special to me. Both for what it actually is, and for what it represents.
What it is, is a hot-rodded manual road-oriented version of the RS – lighter, slimmer, rawer (to me), manual gears, light flywheel, etc. And from my experience of owning both cars, the R’s acceleration feels to me like that of a 550 hp RS. While the RS has the advantage of launch control and immediate gear shifts, the R accelerates noticeably harder within gear.
What it represents is, is what makes the R truly special. For me, the RS is simply the latest in a line of track weapons among which there is significant lineage in the form of every previous RS, and a number of alternatives – regular GT3, Speciale, 675 LT, etc. With the R, there is no previous version or obvious alternatives (unless you bother to look at prevoius generation GT3s and GT3RS's) – IMHO if you want a raw hot-rod manual road weapon, there is nothing else even close. To me the R is almost as exciting as a CGT but a lot more fun without the grim reaper waiting to pounce at any wrong move.
IMHO The GT4 is a puppy, the CGT a lion, and the R a thoroughbred.
While you are certanly free to conclude the the R is "alot more special" for you don't decide that for others. Thats your opinon. I would be there are quite a few here that see it differently. I wouldn't trade my RS for an R. Not even close assuming equal market values. Based on values only would I trade if were even up and then sell the R, buy antoher RS and bank the difference.
I'm sure the R is nice but I wouldn't give it two looks. Its Porsche hype and marketing at its finest. Its ho hum to me but clearly not you. The R's heritage is racing. The current R is tuned for the street not racing. It thus steps away from its heritage and the core of what Porsche is about. Racing.
Also, if it revs so fast you need auto blip its not quite as pure as marketed. What no heel toe? Anyway, in todays world what is pure performance to one man is not to another.
Other alternatives? Plenty if you want three peddles. 997GT3 and 997RS's. You want raw? There you go.
Your opinons are exactly that. Yours. Not others.
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tdmgt3 (09-01-2023)
10-13-2016, 05:01 PM
#32
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by Waxer
There fixed it.
While you are certanly free to conclude the the R is "alot more special" for you don't decide that for others. Thats your opinon. I would be there are quite a few here that see it differently. I wouldn't trade my RS for an R. Not even close assuming equal market values. Based on values only would I trade if were even up and then sell the R, buy antoher RS and bank the difference.
I'm sure the R is nice but I wouldn't give it two looks. Its Porsche hype and marketing at its finest. Its ho hum to me but clearly not you. The R's heritage is racing. The current R is tuned for the street not racing. It thus steps away from its heritage and the core of what Porsche is about. Racing.
Also, if it revs so fast you need auto blip its not quite as pure as marketed. What no heel toe? Anyway, in todays world what is pure performance to one man is not to another.
Other alternatives? Plenty if you want three peddles. 997GT3 and 997RS's. You want raw? There you go.
Your opinons are exactly that. Yours. Not others.
While you are certanly free to conclude the the R is "alot more special" for you don't decide that for others. Thats your opinon. I would be there are quite a few here that see it differently. I wouldn't trade my RS for an R. Not even close assuming equal market values. Based on values only would I trade if were even up and then sell the R, buy antoher RS and bank the difference.
I'm sure the R is nice but I wouldn't give it two looks. Its Porsche hype and marketing at its finest. Its ho hum to me but clearly not you. The R's heritage is racing. The current R is tuned for the street not racing. It thus steps away from its heritage and the core of what Porsche is about. Racing.
Also, if it revs so fast you need auto blip its not quite as pure as marketed. What no heel toe? Anyway, in todays world what is pure performance to one man is not to another.
Other alternatives? Plenty if you want three peddles. 997GT3 and 997RS's. You want raw? There you go.
Your opinons are exactly that. Yours. Not others.
I personally don't understand your frustration...and it is frustration I feel...
Again,it's his thread/his impressions...he did not try to impose his opinions on you...why do you click on it? Carry on...
10-13-2016, 05:10 PM
#33
Nordschleife Master
You are obviously taking things too seriously. It is of course his opinion/his thread and his impressions,while what you think is yours. Bear in mind he has and driven both cars,you don't...
I personally don't understand your frustration...and it is frustration I feel...
Again,it's his thread/his impressions...he did not try to impose his opinions on you...why do you click on it? Carry on...
I personally don't understand your frustration...and it is frustration I feel...
Again,it's his thread/his impressions...he did not try to impose his opinions on you...why do you click on it? Carry on...
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tdmgt3 (09-01-2023)
10-13-2016, 05:47 PM
#34
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by Waxer
Driving impressoins are not opinions that state one car as "alot more special" than another. Are they?
That is MY OPINION,you can definitely feel differently...
10-13-2016, 06:07 PM
#35
Nordschleife Master
Can be. He clearly states that he owns both cars,so I believe he's entitled to his opinion. He didn't put " IMO " next to his statements,but many of us do not always do that either. It is so obvious in this case it is HIS opinion,since this is HIS thread. So why not take it as such and not worry about it? That is MY OPINION,you can definitely feel differently...
That is MY OPINION,you can definitely feel differently...He voiced his. I voiced mine. We're good here.
10-13-2016, 06:28 PM
#36
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by Waxer
No big deal to me. Even driving impressions are opinion. Its just when people voice "opinion" as though it is objective fact I think it only fair to point out its not "objective fact" but subjective opinion.
He voiced his. I voiced mine. We're good here.
He voiced his. I voiced mine. We're good here.
But besides that : " it feels lighter and feels like it accelerates faster "...the R is lighter with same power as the RS...so perhaps he's right?
" More mechanical noise " and " free revving "...well,the R has less sound insulation so more noises make it into the cabin. On the other hand,maybe it's just my impression but I did notice these DFI 9A1 based engines are revving so fast,even faster than the Mezger dare I say... Now put a single mass flywheel like on the R and I can see where the OP is coming from.
" More playful on the road "...well less contact patch than the RS,different(better) calibration for the RWS and the electric steering.
" Faster on acceleration "...less downforce than the RS=>less drag...perhaps he's right?
And I can go on but I'll stop here.
This is my opinion,but I believe the R is more than the sum of its parts...and as an Apple commercial would say : " they've done it again,the 911 reinvented ".
10-13-2016, 06:38 PM
#37
There fixed it.
While you are certanly free to conclude the the R is "alot more special" for you don't decide that for others. Thats your opinon. I would be there are quite a few here that see it differently. I wouldn't trade my RS for an R. Not even close assuming equal market values. Based on values only would I trade if were even up and then sell the R, buy antoher RS and bank the difference.
While you are certanly free to conclude the the R is "alot more special" for you don't decide that for others. Thats your opinon. I would be there are quite a few here that see it differently. I wouldn't trade my RS for an R. Not even close assuming equal market values. Based on values only would I trade if were even up and then sell the R, buy antoher RS and bank the difference.
Where in any of the OPs posts did you get the impression that his comments were anything other than his personal opinions and impressions?
Somebody needs a laxative.
10-13-2016, 06:53 PM
#38
Nordschleife Master
I was pointing out some of his statements were couched as they were empherical facts.
Where is it documented empherically that the R is "alot more special". Also what exactly does that mean?
If you want to accept his opinon as objective fact feel free. I have an issue with that.
I think you you need some laxative as you apparently have an up tight issue with someone calling BS when its BS unless you just like BS.
10-13-2016, 07:04 PM
#39
Nordschleife Master
Neanicu:
Maybe you skipped over this...
Thats not a statement of opinon or driving impression its an attempt to state a fact when its not a fact nor capable of being an objective fact.
You can "spin" it any way you want.
If its opinion...here's mine. Compared to the R, the RS is alot more speical. Both for what it is, and for what it represents, the fact that it stays true to its performance track race heritage not to mention its more prodigous performance envelope at a lesser price. The RS will run and hide from the R either on the street or the track. It looks cooler too.
Are we good?
Maybe you skipped over this...
You can "spin" it any way you want.
If its opinion...here's mine. Compared to the R, the RS is alot more speical. Both for what it is, and for what it represents, the fact that it stays true to its performance track race heritage not to mention its more prodigous performance envelope at a lesser price. The RS will run and hide from the R either on the street or the track. It looks cooler too.
Are we good?
10-13-2016, 07:14 PM
#40
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by Waxer
Neanicu:
Maybe you skipped over this...Thats not a statement of opinon or driving impression its an attempt to state a fact when its not a fact nor capable of being an objective fact.
You can "spin" it any way you want.
If its opinion...here's mine. Compared to the R, the RS is alot more speical. Both for what it is, and for what it represents, the fact that it stays true to its performance track heritage not to mention its more prodigous performance envelope at a lesser price. The RS will run and hide from the R either on the street or the track. It looks cooler too.
Are we good?
Maybe you skipped over this...Thats not a statement of opinon or driving impression its an attempt to state a fact when its not a fact nor capable of being an objective fact.
You can "spin" it any way you want.
If its opinion...here's mine. Compared to the R, the RS is alot more speical. Both for what it is, and for what it represents, the fact that it stays true to its performance track heritage not to mention its more prodigous performance envelope at a lesser price. The RS will run and hide from the R either on the street or the track. It looks cooler too.
Are we good?
I do not try to " spin " anything,I was just trying to offer a reasonable explanation to what the OP and several reputable journalists have stated about the car...
All good IMO...
10-13-2016, 07:32 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
Per neanicu's request elsewhere, some quick thoughts on the R after a quick drive in one last summer:
-Somehow manages to sound like a 1980s Carrera 3.2—albeit a demonic one—around town despite its water jackets. In other words, the R is LOUD and super mechanical. Love that.
-Optional LWF is great, and I'd have to have it (but you gotta like that rattle, like I do).
-Everything else about the car is nicely refined. It doesn't beat you up.
-Handling seems great, with lots of grip like any 991 GT3, but I only did relatively low-speed curvy road stuff—and not enough of it...maybe 20-40 minutes.
-New gearbox is nice, but not as nice-shifting as GT4 box.
-Engine is as manic as it is in the RS, but you've got less grip so that makes it more exciting.
-Epic power and long runs to redline make finding a place to uncork the R at least as difficult as it is in the RS, and then you've got to be on your game with the shifter.
-Love the R's lack of a rear wing and its toned down looks—it's a nice complement alongside the also great looking GT3 RS. On aesthetics, I'd go R, because I like sleepers. Mine would be PTS Oak Green Metallic (unlikely as that would be), or "more realistically" GT Silver on gray wheels with no stripes. The only way to make it more desirable, for me, would be to add rear seats.
-Didn't have as much time with the R as I would have liked, but I was thankful to get some time in at all.
-For a street-mainly 911, I prefer R to RS. For a track-mainly car, I prefer RS. Seems like someone got that brief right.
-Sadly, price is an unavoidable subject with the R. So is the R worth it in a day of $130k Carrera Ss and 911 Turbos? At MSRP, maybe. At current market price? To me? Um....no—but we know how much that matters.
-Bring on the 991-2 GT3 manual. Please add options for some special colors, wing delete, and back seats.
-Somehow manages to sound like a 1980s Carrera 3.2—albeit a demonic one—around town despite its water jackets. In other words, the R is LOUD and super mechanical. Love that.
-Optional LWF is great, and I'd have to have it (but you gotta like that rattle, like I do).
-Everything else about the car is nicely refined. It doesn't beat you up.
-Handling seems great, with lots of grip like any 991 GT3, but I only did relatively low-speed curvy road stuff—and not enough of it...maybe 20-40 minutes.
-New gearbox is nice, but not as nice-shifting as GT4 box.
-Engine is as manic as it is in the RS, but you've got less grip so that makes it more exciting.
-Epic power and long runs to redline make finding a place to uncork the R at least as difficult as it is in the RS, and then you've got to be on your game with the shifter.
-Love the R's lack of a rear wing and its toned down looks—it's a nice complement alongside the also great looking GT3 RS. On aesthetics, I'd go R, because I like sleepers. Mine would be PTS Oak Green Metallic (unlikely as that would be), or "more realistically" GT Silver on gray wheels with no stripes. The only way to make it more desirable, for me, would be to add rear seats.
-Didn't have as much time with the R as I would have liked, but I was thankful to get some time in at all.
-For a street-mainly 911, I prefer R to RS. For a track-mainly car, I prefer RS. Seems like someone got that brief right.
-Sadly, price is an unavoidable subject with the R. So is the R worth it in a day of $130k Carrera Ss and 911 Turbos? At MSRP, maybe. At current market price? To me? Um....no—but we know how much that matters.
-Bring on the 991-2 GT3 manual. Please add options for some special colors, wing delete, and back seats.
10-13-2016, 07:37 PM
#43
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by stout
Per neanicu's request elsewhere, some quick thoughts on the R after a quick drive in one last summer:
-Somehow manages to sound like a 1980s Carrera 3.2—albeit a demonic one—around town despite its water jackets. In other words, the R is LOUD and super mechanical. Love that.
-Optional LWF is great, and I'd have to have it (but you gotta like that rattle, like I do).
-Everything else about the car is nicely refined. It doesn't beat you up.
-Handling seems great, with lots of grip like any 991 GT3, but I only did relatively low-speed curvy road stuff—and not enough of it...maybe 20-40 minutes.
-New gearbox is nice, but not as nice-shifting as GT4 box.
-Engine is as manic as it is in the RS, but you've got less grip so that makes it more exciting.
-Epic power and long runs to redline make finding a place to uncork the R at least as difficult as it is in the RS, and then you've got to be on your game with the shifter.
-Love the R's lack of a rear wing and its toned down looks—it's a nice complement alongside the also great looking GT3 RS. On aesthetics, I'd go R, because I like sleepers. Mine would be PTS Oak Green Metallic (unlikely as that would be), or "more realistically" GT Silver on gray wheels with no stripes. The only way to make it more desirable, for me, would be to add rear seats.
-Didn't have as much time with the R as I would have liked, but I was thankful to get some time in at all.
-For a street-mainly 911, I prefer R to RS. For a track-mainly car, I prefer RS. Seems like someone got that brief right.
-Sadly, price is an unavoidable subject with the R. So is the R worth it in a day of $130k Carrera Ss and 911 Turbos? At MSRP, maybe. At current market price? To me? Um....no—but we know how much that matters.
-Bring on the 991-2 GT3 manual. Please add options for some special colors, wing delete, and back seats.
-Somehow manages to sound like a 1980s Carrera 3.2—albeit a demonic one—around town despite its water jackets. In other words, the R is LOUD and super mechanical. Love that.
-Optional LWF is great, and I'd have to have it (but you gotta like that rattle, like I do).
-Everything else about the car is nicely refined. It doesn't beat you up.
-Handling seems great, with lots of grip like any 991 GT3, but I only did relatively low-speed curvy road stuff—and not enough of it...maybe 20-40 minutes.
-New gearbox is nice, but not as nice-shifting as GT4 box.
-Engine is as manic as it is in the RS, but you've got less grip so that makes it more exciting.
-Epic power and long runs to redline make finding a place to uncork the R at least as difficult as it is in the RS, and then you've got to be on your game with the shifter.
-Love the R's lack of a rear wing and its toned down looks—it's a nice complement alongside the also great looking GT3 RS. On aesthetics, I'd go R, because I like sleepers. Mine would be PTS Oak Green Metallic (unlikely as that would be), or "more realistically" GT Silver on gray wheels with no stripes. The only way to make it more desirable, for me, would be to add rear seats.
-Didn't have as much time with the R as I would have liked, but I was thankful to get some time in at all.
-For a street-mainly 911, I prefer R to RS. For a track-mainly car, I prefer RS. Seems like someone got that brief right.
-Sadly, price is an unavoidable subject with the R. So is the R worth it in a day of $130k Carrera Ss and 911 Turbos? At MSRP, maybe. At current market price? To me? Um....no—but we know how much that matters.
-Bring on the 991-2 GT3 manual. Please add options for some special colors, wing delete, and back seats.
10-13-2016, 08:41 PM
#44
You clearly did not read his entire posts.
I was pointing out some of his statements were couched as they were empherical facts.
Where is it documented empherically that the R is "alot more special". Also what exactly does that mean?
If you want to accept his opinon as objective fact feel free. I have an issue with that.
I think you you need some laxative as you apparently have an up tight issue with someone calling BS when its BS unless you just like BS.
I was pointing out some of his statements were couched as they were empherical facts.
Where is it documented empherically that the R is "alot more special". Also what exactly does that mean?
If you want to accept his opinon as objective fact feel free. I have an issue with that.
I think you you need some laxative as you apparently have an up tight issue with someone calling BS when its BS unless you just like BS.
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catdog2 (03-23-2023)
10-13-2016, 08:57 PM
#45
Dude, the title of the whole f$cking thread is 911R Driving Impressions! You're the only one in this thread interpreting his comments as if they were statements of fact. And I'm not accepting anything he said as fact, rather I'm reading those as his impressions, because I have a reasonable command of the English language and i know the difference between the word impression and fact.