Theoretically- A waiting list
07-30-2016, 03:21 PM
#76
Three Wheelin'
The "list" is a 2 way street. What does one do with a guy who gets on 10 lists? Then leaves your list without you having anything to do with it. There has to be a punishment system for those that abuse the multiple list process, where they can only afford to buy one.
07-30-2016, 03:45 PM
#77
I don't have any real advice as I am "out" on Porsche buying right now a mere 18 mo after buying my very first new street car. I had a great experience that I think you'd replicate in that I was a local buyer and ordered a 2015 GT3 from Park Place at MSRP, and they even covered ED without a peep about how they had to pay for it (a fact I learned of well after picking up the car).
But wow has the world changed since then. 918s went up, and then the craze over RS and R with markups that to me simply eliminate the value proposition if I intend to actually use the car. I expect any tracked RS or "high mileage" RS or R to wipe out the markup one would pay to acquire one and I simply can't justify $50K or more in spent money to drive one of these cars for a year. I also say this as I have been trying to sell my 5000 mile GT3 and all the buyers want to know is how pretty it is and most shy away when I tell them it's been on track (and probably 10-15 total sessions with only 1.5 sets of tires and .5 sets of pads consumed).
Oh and I don't breathe Porsche so would never buy a SUV or basic 911 or Cayman/Boxster so I'm not a value customer in that regard. My sole interest would be GT or other high performance models that are highly sought after.
I think a big demographic influx is the status buyer, much like Ferrari and I've owned several Ferraris but never a new one due to the modus operandi of dealers.
I don't really blame dealers and speculators for the gamesmanship, as profit is profit, but I buy my cars to drive and 1500 miles or less of outings to dinner and cars & coffee per year so I can resell or trade is just not my deal.
Hence you, me and several others have bought ACR-Es. I expect a depreciation hit if and when I sell, but far less than buying an RS at market and also tracking it.
I hope you can be profitable with your ethos and not get played by speculators, but don't know how feasible that really is. But I suspect you can ferret out the real guys from the carpetbaggers and I look forward to hearing how you do.
But wow has the world changed since then. 918s went up, and then the craze over RS and R with markups that to me simply eliminate the value proposition if I intend to actually use the car. I expect any tracked RS or "high mileage" RS or R to wipe out the markup one would pay to acquire one and I simply can't justify $50K or more in spent money to drive one of these cars for a year. I also say this as I have been trying to sell my 5000 mile GT3 and all the buyers want to know is how pretty it is and most shy away when I tell them it's been on track (and probably 10-15 total sessions with only 1.5 sets of tires and .5 sets of pads consumed).
Oh and I don't breathe Porsche so would never buy a SUV or basic 911 or Cayman/Boxster so I'm not a value customer in that regard. My sole interest would be GT or other high performance models that are highly sought after.
I think a big demographic influx is the status buyer, much like Ferrari and I've owned several Ferraris but never a new one due to the modus operandi of dealers.
I don't really blame dealers and speculators for the gamesmanship, as profit is profit, but I buy my cars to drive and 1500 miles or less of outings to dinner and cars & coffee per year so I can resell or trade is just not my deal.
Hence you, me and several others have bought ACR-Es. I expect a depreciation hit if and when I sell, but far less than buying an RS at market and also tracking it.
I hope you can be profitable with your ethos and not get played by speculators, but don't know how feasible that really is. But I suspect you can ferret out the real guys from the carpetbaggers and I look forward to hearing how you do.
07-30-2016, 03:48 PM
#78
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The "list" is a 2 way street. What does one do with a guy who gets on 10 lists? Then leaves your list without you having anything to do with it. There has to be a punishment system for those that abuse the multiple list process, where they can only afford to buy one.
I've got about 30-40 people on my "list"
If someone passes, I just move someone else up. No harm no foul.
I'd be pissed if someone specced it out and then bailed.
07-30-2016, 04:20 PM
#79
Three Wheelin'
Ya I think we are just trying to all help out a seemingly great car guy expand his empire despite his experience it's simply additional help that he probably either doesn't need or way past already but I like to add my 2 cents so he can ignore us no problem....when I had my stores I didn't have patience to wait 12 years myself. At this point CJ is better waiting until Porsche business cools because current blue sky multiple on earnings is record high....unless of course he gets a open point which I'm sure he is already preparing to run after but Porsche open points aren't a dime a dozen.
07-30-2016, 04:23 PM
#80
So- lets say there was a guy that happened to get a Porsche dealership.
how would you guys prefer that the waitlist is handled?
Should the dealer be #1 on his own list? His friends?
Preference to Local customers? or just whoever shows up with the money first?
Some of you know how hard I have been trying to get a Porsche dealership, and I have even sold a few of you guys your cars. I'd like to be everyone's favorite store but the waiting list by definition is playing favorites of my own.
At our McLaren store in AZ, we are basically trying to convert local owners as our top priority in order to recapture service. We are not playing ferrari games of "well if you buy this dog of a used car, then we'll LET you buy a new car"
it's a different thing on a smaller scale, but would love to hear your advice.
You know, so I can manifest my own destiny.
how would you guys prefer that the waitlist is handled?
Should the dealer be #1 on his own list? His friends?
Preference to Local customers? or just whoever shows up with the money first?
Some of you know how hard I have been trying to get a Porsche dealership, and I have even sold a few of you guys your cars. I'd like to be everyone's favorite store but the waiting list by definition is playing favorites of my own.
At our McLaren store in AZ, we are basically trying to convert local owners as our top priority in order to recapture service. We are not playing ferrari games of "well if you buy this dog of a used car, then we'll LET you buy a new car"
it's a different thing on a smaller scale, but would love to hear your advice.
You know, so I can manifest my own destiny.
For me, and like you I imagine, would like to keep the stock and overhead and other Expenses as low as possible at first. And that is one of the great things about Porsche because you know a lot of the cars you may sell are Bespoke and only need to keep a few off the lower cost models of cars on the low side. That is until the point where Porsche requires the business to carry X amount of stock to remain a franchise. Hell the Dealership where my parents live has a small number of cars and will only get a few spots for 911 Turbos and maybe a GT car per year. But then they also carry Audi and VW and make more profit on VWs and Audis.
They usually have in stock a few vehicles that are one or two years old and the Owner started out as a car washer at this place when he was 17 years old and worked his way up the ladder to the point when the Original Owner wNted to retire and sold him his Dealership.
07-30-2016, 04:29 PM
#81
Three Wheelin'
Would it be easier, let's say, to ask for a VW and\or Audi franchise as well? Seems like there are a lot of these Manufacturers at just one spot. But I do understand just wanting Porsche and no other's. Even though the other two are part of VW Auto Group. However most of the three combo dealerships started life as only VW then added Audi and Porsche later.
For me, and like you I imagine, would like to keep the stock and overhead and other Expenses as low as possible at first. And that is one of the great things about Porsche because you know a lot of the cars you may sell are Bespoke and only need to keep a few off the lower cost models of cars on the low side. That is until the point where Porsche requires the business to carry X amount of stock to remain a franchise. Hell the Dealership where my parents live has a small number of cars and will only get a few spots for 911 Turbos and maybe a GT car per year. But then they also carry Audi and VW and make more profit on VWs and Audis.
They usually have in stock a few vehicles that are one or two years old and the Owner started out as a car washer at this place when he was 17 years old and worked his way up the ladder to the point when the Original Owner wNted to retire and sold him his Dealership.
For me, and like you I imagine, would like to keep the stock and overhead and other Expenses as low as possible at first. And that is one of the great things about Porsche because you know a lot of the cars you may sell are Bespoke and only need to keep a few off the lower cost models of cars on the low side. That is until the point where Porsche requires the business to carry X amount of stock to remain a franchise. Hell the Dealership where my parents live has a small number of cars and will only get a few spots for 911 Turbos and maybe a GT car per year. But then they also carry Audi and VW and make more profit on VWs and Audis.
They usually have in stock a few vehicles that are one or two years old and the Owner started out as a car washer at this place when he was 17 years old and worked his way up the ladder to the point when the Original Owner wNted to retire and sold him his Dealership.
07-30-2016, 05:22 PM
#82
Platinum Dealership
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Guys I love the advice on how to acquire or work my way in- but my main question is just how would you all want to be taken care of?
07-30-2016, 05:49 PM
#83
One suggestion: Anyone who wants a manual 991.2 GT3 should automatically jump ahead of PDK people on any "list".
I think you should sell the GT cars to people who seem to be real enthusiasts (local and national). They don't have to be track rats, but definitely people who are not on their first sports car. An interesting pre-requisite for a list could be that the drivers can push a car with no nannies on and keep their cool while going fast.
Would give you a unique clientele that would all share a lot of commonality, and who would be more likely to keep buying sports cars in down turns to feed their addiction.
Obviously it depends on the car, as to what kind of buyer wants it, but the GT3 and GT4 (with a manual) are cars for drivers. I think those lists should show a preference for drivers... The GT3RS and GT2(RS) attract all sorts and at their prices seem more likely to be museum pieces. All depends on the buyer of those (uber wealthy can drive them all into the ground).
I think you should sell the GT cars to people who seem to be real enthusiasts (local and national). They don't have to be track rats, but definitely people who are not on their first sports car. An interesting pre-requisite for a list could be that the drivers can push a car with no nannies on and keep their cool while going fast.
Would give you a unique clientele that would all share a lot of commonality, and who would be more likely to keep buying sports cars in down turns to feed their addiction.
Obviously it depends on the car, as to what kind of buyer wants it, but the GT3 and GT4 (with a manual) are cars for drivers. I think those lists should show a preference for drivers... The GT3RS and GT2(RS) attract all sorts and at their prices seem more likely to be museum pieces. All depends on the buyer of those (uber wealthy can drive them all into the ground).
07-30-2016, 06:43 PM
#84
Three Wheelin'
One suggestion: Anyone who wants a manual 991.2 GT3 should automatically jump ahead of PDK people on any "list".
I think you should sell the GT cars to people who seem to be real enthusiasts (local and national). They don't have to be track rats, but definitely people who are not on their first sports car. An interesting pre-requisite for a list could be that the drivers can push a car with no nannies on and keep their cool while going fast.
Would give you a unique clientele that would all share a lot of commonality, and who would be more likely to keep buying sports cars in down turns to feed their addiction.
Obviously it depends on the car, as to what kind of buyer wants it, but the GT3 and GT4 (with a manual) are cars for drivers. I think those lists should show a preference for drivers... The GT3RS and GT2(RS) attract all sorts and at their prices seem more likely to be museum pieces. All depends on the buyer of those (uber wealthy can drive them all into the ground).
I think you should sell the GT cars to people who seem to be real enthusiasts (local and national). They don't have to be track rats, but definitely people who are not on their first sports car. An interesting pre-requisite for a list could be that the drivers can push a car with no nannies on and keep their cool while going fast.
Would give you a unique clientele that would all share a lot of commonality, and who would be more likely to keep buying sports cars in down turns to feed their addiction.
Obviously it depends on the car, as to what kind of buyer wants it, but the GT3 and GT4 (with a manual) are cars for drivers. I think those lists should show a preference for drivers... The GT3RS and GT2(RS) attract all sorts and at their prices seem more likely to be museum pieces. All depends on the buyer of those (uber wealthy can drive them all into the ground).
It's simple to me....communication and transparency are the 2 keys to any potential list and of course never more than MSRP. Many buyers feel that dealers make many adjustments to lists and move important clients around as they see fit and it's not transparent. I would have a dealer client list that would be called first of previous customers (first calls out typically determined by previous number of cars purchased before from store) that show interest in model when I decide to start taking deposits for a specific car. Those previous customers get first crack and after the potential dealer customers have been given opportunity (I never required deposits from known dealer clients) then open it up to non dealer customers or first time clients on a first come first serve basis with a $1000 deposit that will not be refundable until production has ended and no allocation given. During actual production and allocation I would email customers a regular list on positions (obviously not providing customer info on list) and which spots have been given a confirmed allocation so all can see where they stand. Someone is always going to be left behind of production limited so no perfect way exists but at some point it must be consistent and transparent.
Last edited by sccchiii; 07-30-2016 at 08:05 PM.
07-30-2016, 07:19 PM
#85
Rennlist Member
Unfortunately it's not wise to discriminate on any potential buyers (based on manual/PDK or street/track use). It will never be a win for a customer or dealer long term. It's simple to me....communication and transparency are the 2 keys to any potential list and of course never more than MSRP. Many buyers feel that dealers make many adjustments to lists and move important clients around as they see fit and it's not transparent. I would have a dealer client list that would be called first of previous customers (first calls out typically determined by previous number of cars purchased before from store) that show interest in model when I decide to start taking deposits for a specific car. Those previous customers get first crack and after the potential dealer customers have been given opprutunity (I never required deposits from known dealer clients) then open it up to non dealer customers or first time clients on a first come first serve basis with a $1000 deposit that will not be refundable until production has ended and no allocation given. During actual production and allocation I would email customers a regular list on positions (obviously not providing customer info on list) and which spots have been given a confirmed allocation so all can see where they stand. Someone is always going to be left behind of production limited so no perfect way exists but at some point it must be consistent and transparent.
07-30-2016, 09:21 PM
#87
Burning Brakes
funny, was just telling my GF about you today since she is interested in 570GT, but had somewhat negative experience at nearby McLaren dealership. as others have said, the fact that you ask a question like this on RL already puts you ahead of most dealers.
07-30-2016, 09:38 PM
#88
Anyone who has been chasing a Porsche dealership for 12 years speaks for itself. I know how dealerships get bought and sold, and if you're not represented by a broker for an existing point, your odds of finding one are slim to none. I've got no axe to grind here -- just offering some free advice that wasn't intended to tickle your funny bone.
07-30-2016, 10:12 PM
#89
Rennlist Member
I haven't read all posts yet but I would go MSRP only as a company policy.
My dealer does and every new car I will ever buy will be from the same sales man I have a relation with (longest tenure at this dealership of any Porsche sales person in the US).
Just picked up my wife's Macan S yesterday. I've not asked for a discount.
As a dealer I'd would expect all cars in the family to be bought there. This is where know your customer comes in.. Maybe a little questionair for sales people that go into a data base.
Honor system but you can know who drives what, bought where and sold when.
Locals will give you the repeat service business but I would run my list first come first serve. Old repeat local customers will deposit early.
If one ever doesn't take delivery of a spec-ed car they go off the list. Flippers of non driven cars back of the line.
This can only work if these preferred customers are known, so sales people may actually have to represent and only sell truth. Long term only.
My deposit is riding since 2008 and if my number comes up I'm buying, or if I am unable, I won't spec a car but find the right buyer or let it drop down the list.
If anyone in the family needs a new car it's forbidden to buy elsewhere. Even the other brands they sell.
Id love to give you my business but that's never going to happen because I'm taken
My dealer does and every new car I will ever buy will be from the same sales man I have a relation with (longest tenure at this dealership of any Porsche sales person in the US).
Just picked up my wife's Macan S yesterday. I've not asked for a discount.
As a dealer I'd would expect all cars in the family to be bought there. This is where know your customer comes in.. Maybe a little questionair for sales people that go into a data base.
Honor system but you can know who drives what, bought where and sold when.
Locals will give you the repeat service business but I would run my list first come first serve. Old repeat local customers will deposit early.
If one ever doesn't take delivery of a spec-ed car they go off the list. Flippers of non driven cars back of the line.
This can only work if these preferred customers are known, so sales people may actually have to represent and only sell truth. Long term only.
My deposit is riding since 2008 and if my number comes up I'm buying, or if I am unable, I won't spec a car but find the right buyer or let it drop down the list.
If anyone in the family needs a new car it's forbidden to buy elsewhere. Even the other brands they sell.
Id love to give you my business but that's never going to happen because I'm taken
Last edited by TRAKCAR; 07-30-2016 at 10:31 PM.
07-31-2016, 02:00 AM
#90
First come first serve, with preference for repeat customers. MSRP.
I've got my name down for .2 GT3 at MSRP from dealer where I bought my 997.2.
I've got my name down for .2 GT3 at MSRP from dealer where I bought my 997.2.