Stop Sale is the cause of current Premiums on Cost of GT cars?
06-29-2016, 02:15 PM
#1
Stop Sale is the cause of current Premiums on Cost of GT cars?
I just posted in another thread posing this question of the Topic above...
Are the current values and premiums of new (more so configurable allocations) and used GT cars a result of, or partially an effect of, the Stop Sale from the 991.1 GT3?
I believe that the VERY HIGH Values, Cost and Premiums on the sales of the New RS and R models can be traced back to the Stop Sale. But just like the 997.2 GT3RS which experiened premiums on top of the Suggested Sale Prices, although not as great, they are of course a result of Limited Production and thus Demand outstripping Supply by a good number. Also perhaps the RS and R having the 4.0L, like the last 997 GT model and highly sought after GT3RS4.0, could be boosting values as well but the motor is the evolution of Porsche adding more Power than the prior model.
There are many Variables besides the Primary, greatest percentage that sway the Premiums Higher, one of course being New and Used Dealers... cough cough Auto Gallery... and Car Prospectors trying to Maximize their Investments because that is their intent.
Now I am no expert on the subject nor can I prove mathematical or scientifically either way why prices, beyond supply and demand and/or the stop sale being a variable, have settled where they currently are!
What does everyone else think on the subject? Is the Answer as simple as Supply and Demand? Before I close this first post I would like to add my observation of how across the board of when the Stop Sale hit all the value's of the 997 GT models increased across the board. Yet values have mostly settled back down to where prices where prior to this entire debacle.
Are the current values and premiums of new (more so configurable allocations) and used GT cars a result of, or partially an effect of, the Stop Sale from the 991.1 GT3?
I believe that the VERY HIGH Values, Cost and Premiums on the sales of the New RS and R models can be traced back to the Stop Sale. But just like the 997.2 GT3RS which experiened premiums on top of the Suggested Sale Prices, although not as great, they are of course a result of Limited Production and thus Demand outstripping Supply by a good number. Also perhaps the RS and R having the 4.0L, like the last 997 GT model and highly sought after GT3RS4.0, could be boosting values as well but the motor is the evolution of Porsche adding more Power than the prior model.
There are many Variables besides the Primary, greatest percentage that sway the Premiums Higher, one of course being New and Used Dealers... cough cough Auto Gallery... and Car Prospectors trying to Maximize their Investments because that is their intent.
Now I am no expert on the subject nor can I prove mathematical or scientifically either way why prices, beyond supply and demand and/or the stop sale being a variable, have settled where they currently are!
What does everyone else think on the subject? Is the Answer as simple as Supply and Demand? Before I close this first post I would like to add my observation of how across the board of when the Stop Sale hit all the value's of the 997 GT models increased across the board. Yet values have mostly settled back down to where prices where prior to this entire debacle.
06-29-2016, 03:08 PM
#3
06-29-2016, 03:21 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by shapiroeric
Great!....another thread on prices/ values!.....
06-29-2016, 04:03 PM
#5
Yes another Evil thread but, Alas, not asking for prices!
I'm trying to gain a consensus of personal views.
Oh and please try to remain on topic. I understand, as well as everyone else, the number of price posts being on the heavy side. Yet this is more of a Root Cause Analysis to the end price.
So thank you for the posts so far and the Cromradery and Humor, it is greatly appreciated.
I'm trying to gain a consensus of personal views.
Oh and please try to remain on topic. I understand, as well as everyone else, the number of price posts being on the heavy side. Yet this is more of a Root Cause Analysis to the end price.
So thank you for the posts so far and the Cromradery and Humor, it is greatly appreciated.
06-29-2016, 04:33 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
I don't think it has anything to do with the stop sale. PAG initially planned to build 2000 units. Maybe they planned an upside of 10-25%, which would put the total at 2500 units. Porsche needs to order the special parts only used in the RS and R months in advance with the parts manufacturers. PDK-S opened up to a new set of buyers and at the same time impressed and converted many of the faithful manual guys. Rave reviews from many journalists helped fuel the desire for the car. Demand exceeded Supply and I think it's that simple. Also, I don't think the Stop Sale led to the 997 GT's going up in value. I think it was the lack of 6-speed in the 991.
Trending Topics
06-29-2016, 05:03 PM
#8
Nordschleife Master
06-29-2016, 05:32 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
will be interesting to see if 997s come back down to earth once 991.2gt3 comes out in a 6-speed (if it does).
initially i thought it would crush 997's but as i drive my 997rs's and gt4/991gt3, i love them all but don't see a 991 based manual gt car as any substitute for a 997. i did dump my plain-jane 997.2 gt3 and held the RS's because i think it's less likely we see another manual RS than another manual gt3. but, the platforms are so dramatically different, manual is just one part. and the 6-speed in a gt4 is BRILLIANT, but it's so different than a 997gt3/rs 6-speed, again, it's just not comparable driving experience. not saying one better than the other, but vastly different.
i agree lack of manual got the party started on 997 rise. i don't think stop sale had/has anything to do with current values of 997s or 991s.
initially i thought it would crush 997's but as i drive my 997rs's and gt4/991gt3, i love them all but don't see a 991 based manual gt car as any substitute for a 997. i did dump my plain-jane 997.2 gt3 and held the RS's because i think it's less likely we see another manual RS than another manual gt3. but, the platforms are so dramatically different, manual is just one part. and the 6-speed in a gt4 is BRILLIANT, but it's so different than a 997gt3/rs 6-speed, again, it's just not comparable driving experience. not saying one better than the other, but vastly different.
i agree lack of manual got the party started on 997 rise. i don't think stop sale had/has anything to do with current values of 997s or 991s.
06-29-2016, 09:32 PM
#11
Less supply than demand
06-30-2016, 10:40 AM
#12
It does say a lot about how much more buyers are willing to part with as a premium to MSRP or dealer pricing in large.
Combine that and the proceeding post about the 997 values increasing because of no manual or 6 speed in the 991 says a lot about the products, new and used, Porsche is manufacturing and how far buyers are willing to go to obtain them.
Also it never passed my mind about the no 6 Speed in the new GT3 et al being a cause of the increased 997 GT car values. Again my narrow view at that moment about the Stop Sale blinded my extremely limited car valuing ability.
Then we all do our "Say it ain't so Joe" shtig about why Porsche didn't even offer a 6 Speed / Manual as an option or vice versa for our beloved track weapons. We would all love, or trade our first born, to know or understand why and who made that decision to go all exclusively with the PDK-S for the GT3s. I can figure an inside dialog would be the fact that the competing cars are packing more power and more so now than ever Car Brands are leaving the manual behind for the time shaving dual clutch gear setup. But PAG had to know and fully understand the backlash they would receive from their Customers if they didn't have a 6 Speed as an option however how slower it would make the car.
Don't know if they would have made the R model if it weren't for the all exclusive automatic PDK cars. That and they really screwed the pooch on making it a limited numbers production car (Then starting to use a 'List' of buyers like Ferrari uses to distribute the sales of the R on out). Planning and Capacity is one thing and Deming's JIT channel supply chain is another yet as being as flexible as Porsche is at building Bespoke cars the R isn't too far from being a modified RS.
I know most of us are biting through our fingernails waiting for the .2 GT3 Announcements and Possible configuration abilities to come forth. The wait is crueling and the consumption of time Dialated like a patient in an ER in extreme pain! But remember for the cost of a new GT3, or less, a driver can buy an older 996 GT3 and have the SharkWerks Spa treatment performed on it and offer to the consumer a far less Nanny enabled car. And even if you don't like the 996's looks you can modify the front and rear to 997.2 aesthetic standards through such companies, as I dare say, Wicked 7. And no it wouldn't involve the width stretching 7 inch increase on the rear end like Wicked does to the salvage titled Turbo 911s they find and modify. I guess for a rapper or others out of touch with the True Porsche Philosophy can fall for the wider rear cars. But they look like Clown Cars ultimately.
Last edited by The New 911; 06-30-2016 at 11:31 AM.
06-30-2016, 10:05 PM
#13
Three Wheelin'
The new 911, my suggestion as that maybe this long weekend you may want to use a few hours reading about Tulip Mania. It is the first recorded asset bubble, ( although maybe not the first bubble, per se). It gives a glimpse of how people psyches get wrapped up in blind efforts to obtain things that look hard or difficult to obtain, thereby creating a massive imbalance between Supply and demand. All bubbles are related to supply/demand imbalances. Those on the demand side look at many elusive factors in deciding to go after a given asset, even assets that do not exist like the proverbial unobtanium, the BLACK TULIP. At the end of the day it all comes down to demand exceeding supply, driven by those willing to part with their money, sometimes quite easily! Yes, there could be many factors driving the buyers (like 9k rpm, PDK v. MT, the latest and greatest, speculative reasons, easy money, I don't want to be left behind mentality, great stock market, etc) but those factors only contribute to individuals going out and creating demand larger than supply. Otherwise we would still be st MSRP. Interesting topic.
06-30-2016, 10:17 PM
#14
Three Wheelin'
I just posted in another thread posing this question of the Topic above...
Are the current values and premiums of new (more so configurable allocations) and used GT cars a result of, or partially an effect of, the Stop Sale from the 991.1 GT3?
I believe that the VERY HIGH Values, Cost and Premiums on the sales of the New RS and R models can be traced back to the Stop Sale. But just like the 997.2 GT3RS which experiened premiums on top of the Suggested Sale Prices, although not as great, they are of course a result of Limited Production and thus Demand outstripping Supply by a good number. Also perhaps the RS and R having the 4.0L, like the last 997 GT model and highly sought after GT3RS4.0, could be boosting values as well but the motor is the evolution of Porsche adding more Power than the prior model.
There are many Variables besides the Primary, greatest percentage that sway the Premiums Higher, one of course being New and Used Dealers... cough cough Auto Gallery... and Car Prospectors trying to Maximize their Investments because that is their intent.
Now I am no expert on the subject nor can I prove mathematical or scientifically either way why prices, beyond supply and demand and/or the stop sale being a variable, have settled where they currently are!
What does everyone else think on the subject? Is the Answer as simple as Supply and Demand? Before I close this first post I would like to add my observation of how across the board of when the Stop Sale hit all the value's of the 997 GT models increased across the board. Yet values have mostly settled back down to where prices where prior to this entire debacle.
Are the current values and premiums of new (more so configurable allocations) and used GT cars a result of, or partially an effect of, the Stop Sale from the 991.1 GT3?
I believe that the VERY HIGH Values, Cost and Premiums on the sales of the New RS and R models can be traced back to the Stop Sale. But just like the 997.2 GT3RS which experiened premiums on top of the Suggested Sale Prices, although not as great, they are of course a result of Limited Production and thus Demand outstripping Supply by a good number. Also perhaps the RS and R having the 4.0L, like the last 997 GT model and highly sought after GT3RS4.0, could be boosting values as well but the motor is the evolution of Porsche adding more Power than the prior model.
There are many Variables besides the Primary, greatest percentage that sway the Premiums Higher, one of course being New and Used Dealers... cough cough Auto Gallery... and Car Prospectors trying to Maximize their Investments because that is their intent.
Now I am no expert on the subject nor can I prove mathematical or scientifically either way why prices, beyond supply and demand and/or the stop sale being a variable, have settled where they currently are!
What does everyone else think on the subject? Is the Answer as simple as Supply and Demand? Before I close this first post I would like to add my observation of how across the board of when the Stop Sale hit all the value's of the 997 GT models increased across the board. Yet values have mostly settled back down to where prices where prior to this entire debacle.
07-01-2016, 12:08 AM
#15
I don't see how it could have. And with current engine FUD oiling issue, I think we'll see a 996-like tank in prices IF there is a significant .2 production. I know I would not touch a .1 with a 10-ft pool without a warranty at this point.