991 GT3 Track Lap Times
07-01-2015, 11:43 AM
#46
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SP is my home track, so have driven many laps and feel pretty confident there, but runoffs are not great, although there has been much improvement in past year. T3 and T9 are most treacherous. T4 is almost universally driven with care, although I instructed someone in a 430 challenge car and we hit 120 coming down the chute, so I guess it is there. T5 is mostly treated as throw away, but I tend to enter on right, just to reduce distance since speed is not an alternative. Do you ever run with Potomac PCA - we are there mid July and August - 3 day weekends?
With regard to WG, little surprised that you feel T2 cannot be taken flat out. I am not certain but I think that at some point I was flat out after entering T2 to bus stop - unless you are referring to entrance to T2. But, you are right on with regard to camber, that is reason we have a track walk on Friday evenings for green and new to track drivers.
Rob in Potomac
With regard to WG, little surprised that you feel T2 cannot be taken flat out. I am not certain but I think that at some point I was flat out after entering T2 to bus stop - unless you are referring to entrance to T2. But, you are right on with regard to camber, that is reason we have a track walk on Friday evenings for green and new to track drivers.
Rob in Potomac
The runoff areas and risks at SP aren't slowing me down too much, it's just that the car doesn't feel right to me there in the locations I mentioned. My guess is that I'm trying to brake too hard and the PASM is rebelling.
I rode with him in the 430 Challenge too. Very good driver, and the slicks certainly help.
Whether you can be flat in WG T2 I guess depends on your speed before T2. With a good launch out of T1, no way I could be flat into and through T2, and I was hitting ~120 mph through the T4 bridge.
07-01-2015, 12:19 PM
#48
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07-01-2015, 02:00 PM
#49
Thunderhill over the top/cyclone - 1:58 (me), 1:57 (ben)
Sonoma Raceway - 1:49 (me), 1:48 (ben)
Laguna Seca - 1:38 (me), 1:37 (ben)
You can see there is a pattern. Ben is always 1 second faster. The only exception has been the Thill 3 mile. I ran 3:30 there while Ben suffered from heat exhaustion in 113F weather and ran 3:33.
While there are those capable of much faster times, my goal is to try to shave another 1-2 seconds off of these times. Compared to my boxster spyder, I'm 6 seconds faster at Thill, but only 3 seconds faster at MRLS and Sonoma. I'm still bummed that Randy Pobst hasn't run a lap at MRLS with the GT3. I'm going to guess that he would have gotten a low 1:35.
Sonoma Raceway - 1:49 (me), 1:48 (ben)
Laguna Seca - 1:38 (me), 1:37 (ben)
You can see there is a pattern. Ben is always 1 second faster. The only exception has been the Thill 3 mile. I ran 3:30 there while Ben suffered from heat exhaustion in 113F weather and ran 3:33.
While there are those capable of much faster times, my goal is to try to shave another 1-2 seconds off of these times. Compared to my boxster spyder, I'm 6 seconds faster at Thill, but only 3 seconds faster at MRLS and Sonoma. I'm still bummed that Randy Pobst hasn't run a lap at MRLS with the GT3. I'm going to guess that he would have gotten a low 1:35.
I'm sure Randy will run in the 34's with the GT3. Hopefully he gets a chance to do it and they don't just skip to the RS. That would be annoying.
Every time I goto Sears Point, people total their cars. It really puts me off on going faster when I see wadded up cars in the pits. Having said that, it's easily my favorite track.
07-01-2015, 07:00 PM
#50
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At WG, I'm flat coming out of T1, but I have to lift somewhat before T2 and am not flat again until after the apex of T3. You'll definitely run wide in T2 if you attempt to do it flat. I think you were losing time in T6 due to braking late and turning in late, which killed your momentum. I brake earlier and less, carry more speed in, and turn in earlier, to take advantage of the camber. And in general, I think fully exploiting the camber is one of the keys to WG (eg, I don't unwind the steering in T1 until I'm close to tracking out, since the camber allows you to both hold the steering - or even add some steering - and continue feed in throttle). Of course, after the repaving, the track will be somewhat of a new ballgame!
I'm not yet comfortable with the car at SP. Feels fine when doing 22s or 23s, but when going faster than that, I continue to be plagued by instability in the bumpy braking zones for T3, T5, and T10. As you suggested, straightening my line from T9 to T10 helped, but still having issues. I'm going to try asking less of the brakes and smoothing things out in general.
My Tbolt number is just something thrown out there as a data point. I don't have enough time at that track to be comfortable really pushing it, and I timed some laps mainly just to set a personal benchmark to gauge my progress in the future. I suspect that plenty of 991 GT3 guys will be posting faster times this season.
I'm not yet comfortable with the car at SP. Feels fine when doing 22s or 23s, but when going faster than that, I continue to be plagued by instability in the bumpy braking zones for T3, T5, and T10. As you suggested, straightening my line from T9 to T10 helped, but still having issues. I'm going to try asking less of the brakes and smoothing things out in general.
My Tbolt number is just something thrown out there as a data point. I don't have enough time at that track to be comfortable really pushing it, and I timed some laps mainly just to set a personal benchmark to gauge my progress in the future. I suspect that plenty of 991 GT3 guys will be posting faster times this season.
07-01-2015, 07:49 PM
#51
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Yikes, that's fast! FWIW, a well-known pro racer in our neck of the woods, who has a 991 GT3, told me he thinks the car can do 17s or 18s at SP with factory tires and alignment. I don't know if that's based on data, but I figured 19s is an ambitious enough long-term target for me. So far, the calibration of the active damping doesn't seem ideal at SP, but is good at VIR, WG, Tbolt, Shenandoah, and JC.
07-01-2015, 09:42 PM
#52
Not my 991 GT3, but here's a video of my Cayman S with NT01s on crappy OEM suspension back in Jan 2015 at Buttonwillow running 13CW where I an a 2:01...
07-04-2015, 07:34 AM
#55
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Heck, I wonder if it should be able to break 2:00. How much does modern technology make up for older tech, 100 fewer hp, lighter weight, and slicks, e.g., I can run sub 2:00 in my 996 Cup, is a current street GT3 not yet on par with a 12 year old Cup car?
I can't speak to many of these track times, but once WGI (and other east coast tracks) is in the discussion, I can contribute.
07-04-2015, 08:45 AM
#56
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Seeing that I ran 2:05.4 in my 964 Cup, I hope a 991 GT3 could at least challenge the PCA K class time of 2:04.x, if not run in the 2:01 range. Heck, I wonder if it should be able to break 2:00. How much does modern technology make up for older tech, 100 fewer hp, lighter weight, and slicks, e.g., I can run sub 2:00 in my 996 Cup, is a current street GT3 not yet on par with a 12 year old Cup car? I can't speak to many of these track times, but once WGI (and other east coast tracks) is in the discussion, I can contribute.
07-04-2015, 08:53 AM
#57
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These are not 1100- 1200kg race cars. They are road cars weighing 1450 kg on sporty road rubber. In my experience a well set up 993/964/996 Cup driven by an experienced pilot on a familiar track will be all over modern GT variants on the track. The 996 Cup v 991 GT3 have same power to weight but the lower weight makes the Cup more nimble, efficient under brakes and Michelin slicks etc will always be a few seconds faster on the track than the MPSC2 which IMO is simply an improved MPSS road tyre (and very good for what it does).
07-04-2015, 09:20 AM
#58
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Seeing that I ran 2:05.4 in my 964 Cup, I hope a 991 GT3 could at least challenge the PCA K class time of 2:04.x, if not run in the 2:01 range.
Heck, I wonder if it should be able to break 2:00. How much does modern technology make up for older tech, 100 fewer hp, lighter weight, and slicks, e.g., I can run sub 2:00 in my 996 Cup, is a current street GT3 not yet on par with a 12 year old Cup car?
I can't speak to many of these track times, but once WGI (and other east coast tracks) is in the discussion, I can contribute.
Heck, I wonder if it should be able to break 2:00. How much does modern technology make up for older tech, 100 fewer hp, lighter weight, and slicks, e.g., I can run sub 2:00 in my 996 Cup, is a current street GT3 not yet on par with a 12 year old Cup car?
I can't speak to many of these track times, but once WGI (and other east coast tracks) is in the discussion, I can contribute.
I have no experience with US tracks but the experience I do have is that an expert,y driven 964 Cup on slicks will keep a 991 GT3 in stock trim honest on a smaller tighter 2 mile track. The GT3 won't be far ahead. With the 996 cup on slicks I'd say they would be very similar but the Cup slightly quicker...
These are not 1100- 1200kg race cars. They are road cars weighing 1450 kg on sporty road rubber. In my experience a well set up 993/964/996 Cup driven by an experienced pilot on a familiar track will be all over modern GT variants on the track. The 996 Cup v 991 GT3 have same power to weight but the lower weight makes the Cup more nimble, efficient under brakes and Michelin slicks etc will always be a few seconds faster on the track than the MPSC2 which IMO is simply an improved MPSS road tyre (and very good for what it does).
At WG, I can see the 991 GT3 being faster than 2:08, but not close to 2:00 flat. Let's see what actual times people post. Assuming it's in stock form, 2:08 is the fastest I've heard so far.
07-04-2015, 09:42 AM
#59
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I agree with Macca. Based on data I've looked at, the 991 GT3 in stock form will be a little slower than the 996 cup on slicks, when both are driven quite well. The 991 GT3 is very fast for a car that's comfy on the street with the stock tires, and the grip with the Sport Cup 2 tires is quite good, but slicks with a well-setup track-only suspension is a different level.
At WG, I can see the 991 GT3 being faster than 2:08, but not close to 2:00 flat. Let's see what actual times people post. Assuming it's in stock form, 2:08 is the fastest I've heard so far.
At WG, I can see the 991 GT3 being faster than 2:08, but not close to 2:00 flat. Let's see what actual times people post. Assuming it's in stock form, 2:08 is the fastest I've heard so far.
07-04-2015, 09:59 AM
#60
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I have no experience with US tracks but the experience I do have is that an expert,y driven 964 Cup on slicks will keep a 991 GT3 in stock trim honest on a smaller tighter 2 mile track. The GT3 won't be far ahead. With the 996 cup on slicks I'd say they would be very similar but the Cup slightly quicker...
Let's just start there. I feel like they are the little car that could and does. Under appreciated part of Porsche history, imo. Watkins Glen is not a tighter 2 mile track, so I would expect the p/w advantage of the GT3 to come into play. These are not 1100- 1200kg race cars. They are road cars weighing 1450 kg on sporty road rubber. In my experience a well set up 993/964/996 Cup driven by an experienced pilot on a familiar track will be all over modern GT variants on the track. The 996 Cup v 991 GT3 have same power to weight but the lower weight makes the Cup more nimble, efficient under brakes and Michelin slicks etc will always be a few seconds faster on the track than the MPSC2 which IMO is simply an improved MPSS road tyre (and very good for what it does).
I agree with Macca. Based on data I've looked at, the 991 GT3 in stock form will be a little slower than the 996 cup on slicks, when both are driven quite well. The 991 GT3 is very fast for a car that's comfy on the street with the stock tires, and the grip with the Sport Cup 2 tires is quite good, but slicks with a well-setup track-only suspension is a different level.
At WG, I can see the 991 GT3 being faster than 2:08, but not close to 2:00 flat. Let's see what actual times people post. Assuming it's in stock form, 2:08 is the fastest I've heard so far.
At WG, I can see the 991 GT3 being faster than 2:08, but not close to 2:00 flat. Let's see what actual times people post. Assuming it's in stock form, 2:08 is the fastest I've heard so far.
Last edited by DrJupeman; 07-04-2015 at 10:23 AM.
