Stop Sale?
03-17-2014, 08:11 PM
#2716
Race Director
Mike,you know how much I respect your opinions,but this is Porsche marketing BS at its best!!!
This is the video I've been looking for a long time. I can't stand and watch this BS any longer! No way the engine problems wouldn't develop in this ^^^kind of testing! I'd say the chances of no rod bolts failures during the testing,had they've been using same parts(and it makes no sense whatsoever why they wouldn't) are less than 10% IMHO!
This is the video I've been looking for a long time. I can't stand and watch this BS any longer! No way the engine problems wouldn't develop in this ^^^kind of testing! I'd say the chances of no rod bolts failures during the testing,had they've been using same parts(and it makes no sense whatsoever why they wouldn't) are less than 10% IMHO!
03-17-2014, 08:13 PM
#2717
As to why they're loosening/failing is conjecture at this point.
Installation/Supplier/Design, who knows, and you might never really know, so wasted energy to stress over it imho.
03-17-2014, 08:17 PM
#2718
Rennlist Member
Peter, I appreciate the advice, but I simply don't feel that my investment is at risk. Porsche will figure out how to fix a con rod bolt, FCOL, and the engine will be good as new; certainly as good as those in any future GT3, RS, or Cayman GT. Unless, of course, you believe that Porsche has just packed it in with regard to ever producing a reliable car ever again.
The car is paid for, there are no payments. I'm willing to see how this plays out. If the fix isn't satisfactory it will give me more ammunition to deal with them in the future. My daughter is quite a good lawyer.....another investment that paid off.
The car is paid for, there are no payments. I'm willing to see how this plays out. If the fix isn't satisfactory it will give me more ammunition to deal with them in the future. My daughter is quite a good lawyer.....another investment that paid off.
No, I don't say they wont ever produce a reliable track car ever again, my deposit for the RS still stands, I'm just saying there is a real risk that it will take a while before this 991GT3 gets the vote of approval to be track worthy and so, it will depreciate like any other car.
Consult your daughter now, if she's good, she will mediate a nice settlement and save you the sorrow ;-)
03-17-2014, 08:17 PM
#2719
Mike my warning is just take the risk off the table and wait a bit longer.
Maybe your a poor engineer, but I must be poorer because I would not take a risk like that for fun.
Better than egg on your face risking a possible 30K+ in instant depreciation on a car that's not dependable while you have to make payments and cant get rid of because of owing more than it's worth.
I can see guys like us not putting money down because we plan to keep the car forever, but what if its bad all around even after this engine fix, running a couple dozen engines?? What about the previous millions of test miles, if that did not do it, whats a dozen engines running gonna do?
Maybe your a poor engineer, but I must be poorer because I would not take a risk like that for fun.
Better than egg on your face risking a possible 30K+ in instant depreciation on a car that's not dependable while you have to make payments and cant get rid of because of owing more than it's worth.
I can see guys like us not putting money down because we plan to keep the car forever, but what if its bad all around even after this engine fix, running a couple dozen engines?? What about the previous millions of test miles, if that did not do it, whats a dozen engines running gonna do?
There is demand for this car that far exceeds the supply...even with you not wanting one.
And if someone is concerned about re-sale...rolleyes: Dont buy a new vehicle.
Im looking at mp4s for 190k that have 300k windows. Now thats depreciation.
03-17-2014, 08:19 PM
#2720
Rennlist Member
Great advice about taking "risk off the table". You can always buy another GT3 down the road.
As for the 4.0, I was offered an allocation, and turned it down. My logic? I already have a 3.9 Manthey, so why the heck would I need a marginally faster 4.0? I'd like a "do over" on that decision.
As for the 4.0, I was offered an allocation, and turned it down. My logic? I already have a 3.9 Manthey, so why the heck would I need a marginally faster 4.0? I'd like a "do over" on that decision.
03-17-2014, 08:21 PM
#2721
Rennlist Member
Yeah, youre not looking at 30k in instant depreciation no matter what happens.
There is demand for this car that far exceeds the supply...even with you not wanting one.
And if someone is concerned about re-sale...rolleyes: Dont buy a new vehicle.
Im looking at mp4s for 190k that have 300k windows. Now thats depreciation.
There is demand for this car that far exceeds the supply...even with you not wanting one.
And if someone is concerned about re-sale...rolleyes: Dont buy a new vehicle.
Im looking at mp4s for 190k that have 300k windows. Now thats depreciation.
All it has to become is a car that depreciates like any other 130K+ car with average demand..
VW is doing a good job of making that happen IMHO
03-17-2014, 08:24 PM
#2722
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I'm thinking Porsche will start to designate April or May builds as 2015 cars to alleviate fears of being associated with the 2014 cars thus the reason for the revised configuration changes....
03-17-2014, 08:27 PM
#2724
Track Day
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A 50k hit is a bit pessimistic. There are still lots of people buying 996s and 997s and 986s and 987s with main seal issues, and the depreciation on those is 'reasonable'. In addition, any issue that comes up would be covered by Porsche in the warranty...so the risk, and the hit to depreciation, doesn't really likely until after the warranty and / or the certified warranty period.
03-17-2014, 08:29 PM
#2725
Rennlist Member
Mark, it sounds as if your company is a good one to do business with.
Maybe it has something to do with the culture of a smaller (not to be presumptive re: the size of your company) versus a very large business. I did engineering for a giant telecommunications firm. We frequently did work which directly impacted consumers. In 30 years I can't think of a single instance where we provided detailed information to customers regarding our planning, engineering, and construction schedules. I don't mean to say that's the best way to do business, but it's not unusual.
I'd love to have daily or weekly updates on the progress of this thing. I'm just not sure how much impact a few web forum members are going to have on a German multi-national corporation. It's possible I'm being defeatist, but I suspect I'm being realistic.
Maybe it has something to do with the culture of a smaller (not to be presumptive re: the size of your company) versus a very large business. I did engineering for a giant telecommunications firm. We frequently did work which directly impacted consumers. In 30 years I can't think of a single instance where we provided detailed information to customers regarding our planning, engineering, and construction schedules. I don't mean to say that's the best way to do business, but it's not unusual.
I'd love to have daily or weekly updates on the progress of this thing. I'm just not sure how much impact a few web forum members are going to have on a German multi-national corporation. It's possible I'm being defeatist, but I suspect I'm being realistic.
I also understand what you are saying about the giant firms as I worked for one, and hated it and vowed to do it differently. My company has only 140 employees, so it is still relatively small compared to the giants.
However there are still few good companies around, that still places customer needs as their number one priority, and hopefully my company remains one of those.
Lets see how this fix plays out, as I am like you is willing to give Porsche some slack to get this done and also appreciative they are doing something about it, but l am also counting on them to do the right thing and make it right for us, and especially when some of the buyers have spent their live savings to buy this car.
03-17-2014, 08:34 PM
#2726
Burning Brakes
Yeah, youre not looking at 30k in instant depreciation no matter what happens.
There is demand for this car that far exceeds the supply...even with you not wanting one.
And if someone is concerned about re-sale...rolleyes: Dont buy a new vehicle.
Im looking at mp4s for 190k that have 300k windows. Now thats depreciation.
There is demand for this car that far exceeds the supply...even with you not wanting one.
And if someone is concerned about re-sale...rolleyes: Dont buy a new vehicle.
Im looking at mp4s for 190k that have 300k windows. Now thats depreciation.
03-17-2014, 08:40 PM
#2728
Rennlist Member
I personally believe that the engineers were astonished that their technologic marvel could have been undone by normal parts quality variation in a critical area where perhaps the computers cut the performance safety envelope a little too close. These types of failures have a "swiss cheese" component where two or more factors must align to result in failure whereas one alone would not. That alone should provide current owners with confidence that the new engine will be a winner since a repeat failure is extremely unlikely. I owned a 95 530i BMW that had the nikasil cylinder liners that crapped out w/ the high sulfur gasoline. The extended warranty meant nothing, the value of the car tanked and nobody cared anyway. I mention this because a GT3 is not a BMW or any other car for that matter. Owners and non owner car enthusiasts care about the GT3, something that is not true about most cars. I'd sit tight if I owned one and let Porsche work to make it right. I believe Porsche has big plans for this engine and is not about to let it die on the vine. I'm looking forward to round 2 which is why I leased my C4S.
This. ^^^
Well, the first sentence at least. The engineering part separate from the marketing part.
I'm German and actually an engineer but in sales because well, I love money.
We hate being wrong! How could my Panzer 991 GT3 have an engine failure? Impossible! We have the most difficult time accepting blame and can do no wrong.
neanicu's video posting above... Yea well he's right on.
The thing is the connecting rod bolt failure isn't going to happen with ALL the cars. It just won't. It was weeks ago when we discussed thousands upon thousands of track and street miles on many of the cars without issue.
If 2 burn they have to agree to fix or buy back all. They have looked at all of the options over the last few weeks and will find the most inexpensive way out of this. It's too bad those 2 cars burned so close together in time or if at least one of them burned on the track like someone else had mentioned.
This is such a phenomenal niche car that can't easily be replaced comparatively.
I don't see the 2014 GT3's being viewed as the burn cars and worth less money. It's not like it's variant 3 series and you just avoid that year because there are thousands of year before or after to choose from. Guys are going to want these cars just like the 2015's. In fact, if Porsche gives the 2014's an exclusive extended warranty on top of the new engines the true track mongers will want a 2014 that they can really beat on.
Even if this cost's Porsche 25 million USD dollars to correct it would be ten times that amount they and or their insurance would have to payout on a wrongful death lawsuit if even one guy burns inside his car.
It's all about the money.
03-17-2014, 08:41 PM
#2729
Rennlist Member
So has anyone noticed that the Porsche configurator is now for 2015 cars? I think at least. When I load my old config it asks tell me that certain options aren't available in the new model year.
So when does the 2015 MY car start?
So when does the 2015 MY car start?
03-17-2014, 08:53 PM
#2730
"Depreciation most definitely on those 2014's will be absolutely huge. I can see an easy instant 30-50k hit on the 14's. Easy. Not so sure what my "contact" meant that this was a supplier issue?? How did this not show up in their testing for 2 years and 100's of thousands of miles and then when it hit production all of a sudden it was an issue? As this is still playing out I would be ok with a car 1 year from now or an RS...... but its pretty risky taking one these with an relatively untested "supplier" parts."
Oh boy...yeah the 2014 991gt3 with full warranty, probably crazy extended power train warranty after this, will now sell for 100k.
What are you smoking?
Oh boy...yeah the 2014 991gt3 with full warranty, probably crazy extended power train warranty after this, will now sell for 100k.
What are you smoking?