991 GT3 - just a sportier Carrera?
06-03-2013, 07:21 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
991 GT3 - just a sportier Carrera?
I know this is beaten to death... but from all that I've read, to me it all sounds like that 991 GT3 is JUST an upgraded Carrera, that is slightly faster, has more track oriented suspension, while essentially the same car (even heavier)! It is a completely different philosophy to 997 GT3, which was basically a de-tuned Cup car, with Metzger engine, and probably had more mechanical parts shared with cup car than Carrera (where it shared most of bodywork).
If the above is true, is the 991 GT3 a true GT3? There are even discussions (just above), that TT might now be faster and just as involved (or lack thereof) due to sharing most of the GT3/Carrera characteristics.
As a Carrera owner that always looked up to GT3 and felt like it is the true definition and ultimate 911 to own, I am certainly disappointed. The car's definitely fast, but GT-R is also quite fast, and I don't have much passion for it.
Overall, as much as 991 was a disappointment, 991 GT3 is that much more disappointing and if next year I try to upgrade to a GT3, it won't be top of my list. Just my 0.02.
If the above is true, is the 991 GT3 a true GT3? There are even discussions (just above), that TT might now be faster and just as involved (or lack thereof) due to sharing most of the GT3/Carrera characteristics.
As a Carrera owner that always looked up to GT3 and felt like it is the true definition and ultimate 911 to own, I am certainly disappointed. The car's definitely fast, but GT-R is also quite fast, and I don't have much passion for it.
Overall, as much as 991 was a disappointment, 991 GT3 is that much more disappointing and if next year I try to upgrade to a GT3, it won't be top of my list. Just my 0.02.
06-03-2013, 07:30 PM
#2
Yep.
The new car is closer to the new 991 GTS with power and aerokits.
The new car is closer to the new 991 GTS with power and aerokits.
Last edited by destaccado; 06-03-2013 at 08:38 PM.
06-03-2013, 07:32 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
It has been beaten to death, buried six feet under, with rebar concrete on top.
06-03-2013, 07:33 PM
#4
I know this is beaten to death... but from all that I've read, to me it all sounds like that 991 GT3 is JUST an upgraded Carrera, that is slightly faster, has more track oriented suspension, while essentially the same car (even heavier)! It is a completely different philosophy to 997 GT3, which was basically a de-tuned Cup car, with Metzger engine, and probably had more mechanical parts shared with cup car than Carrera (where it shared most of bodywork).
If the above is true, is the 991 GT3 a true GT3? There are even discussions (just above), that TT might now be faster and just as involved (or lack thereof) due to sharing most of the GT3/Carrera characteristics.
As a Carrera owner that always looked up to GT3 and felt like it is the true definition and ultimate 911 to own, I am certainly disappointed. The car's definitely fast, but GT-R is also quite fast, and I don't have much passion for it.
Overall, as much as 991 was a disappointment, 991 GT3 is that much more disappointing and if next year I try to upgrade to a GT3, it won't be top of my list. Just my 0.02.
If the above is true, is the 991 GT3 a true GT3? There are even discussions (just above), that TT might now be faster and just as involved (or lack thereof) due to sharing most of the GT3/Carrera characteristics.
As a Carrera owner that always looked up to GT3 and felt like it is the true definition and ultimate 911 to own, I am certainly disappointed. The car's definitely fast, but GT-R is also quite fast, and I don't have much passion for it.
Overall, as much as 991 was a disappointment, 991 GT3 is that much more disappointing and if next year I try to upgrade to a GT3, it won't be top of my list. Just my 0.02.
The 991 will drag Porsche down.
Don't see how they will recover unless of course they bring back the manual.
Shame.......idiots.
If only they would have listened.
We could have saved them.,..damn it!!!!
Why? Why?!?
06-03-2013, 07:37 PM
#5
I'm assuming this is sarcasm but I'm curious about where any of the nonsense that you wrote here was said or implied in his writing...
06-03-2013, 08:32 PM
#6
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They wouldn't put it out if it were inferior to the old one. This is the same old hashed and rehashed subjects on EVERY new generation car. Don't buy one then------but my guess is you will be sorry you didn't give it a chance. The PDK is staying, and you need to adapt or keep the old stuff.
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06-03-2013, 08:47 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Mike's again to Porsche's rescue! 
Can they do anything wrong in your eyes? As intelligent and experienced as you are, I sometimes wonder if you're just another fanboy? At least 991 Carrera was a debate, this is clear-cut fail. Heavier, no Metzger (or whatever engine, different than Cup car), no manual, electric steering, 4-Wheel steering, not easy to maintain, not easy to re-build, all sorts of electronic nannies, so on and so forth...
Come on! Even you should admit that 991 GT3 is a complete departure from original concept, by a huge margin! 991 Carrera actually is not that much further off 997, as GT3 is from the prev. generation.
Can they do anything wrong in your eyes? As intelligent and experienced as you are, I sometimes wonder if you're just another fanboy? At least 991 Carrera was a debate, this is clear-cut fail. Heavier, no Metzger (or whatever engine, different than Cup car), no manual, electric steering, 4-Wheel steering, not easy to maintain, not easy to re-build, all sorts of electronic nannies, so on and so forth...Come on! Even you should admit that 991 GT3 is a complete departure from original concept, by a huge margin! 991 Carrera actually is not that much further off 997, as GT3 is from the prev. generation.
06-03-2013, 08:50 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
They wouldn't put it out if it were inferior to the old one. This is the same old hashed and rehashed subjects on EVERY new generation car. Don't buy one then------but my guess is you will be sorry you didn't give it a chance. The PDK is staying, and you need to adapt or keep the old stuff.
I am free to do whatever I want, or to express my opinions.
06-03-2013, 09:01 PM
#10
Race Director
I am very skeptical of the new 991 GT3...however I will wait and see, hopefully drive one and see how the car does and what Porsche ends up racing in the future before I pass my final judgment on the 991 GT3. Like everyone I will vote with my wallet.
06-03-2013, 09:16 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
+1. I guess I also have to hold judgment until I test drive, but fundamentally and from tech specs, they are a big departure from how a GT3 was even positioned.
06-03-2013, 09:51 PM
#12
Race Director
You didn't like my response above? I thought I covered all the bases! You're very late to this party, Alex. It's all been said, many, many times. Wonder away....
06-03-2013, 10:09 PM
#13
They wouldn't put it out if it were inferior to the old one. This is the same old hashed and rehashed subjects on EVERY new generation car. Don't buy one then------but my guess is you will be sorry you didn't give it a chance. The PDK is staying, and you need to adapt or keep the old stuff.
Ironically that seems to only happen on new generation cars that do end up being inferior as the resale market judged the 996 to be...On the same token - I don't remember this question being asked about any of the previous model GT3's.
Regardless -- where did he call the new GT3 "inferior?" He's simply questioning whether it's a true "GT3" or simply a hopped up Carrera being labeled as one. Frankly, I don't question that at all because IT'S NOT a real "GT3." Read the history of what made the "GT3" a "GT3" and that's clear as day until Porsche decides to race this motor in the cup car. Whether that's a good or bad thing is up to you. I think this new car might actually make a fantastic value daily driver and if the intended use is closer to those lines than it's probably a much better car.
The new car will be faster and I think Porsche will sell every one they make. I don't think they'll fair nearly as well in the more enthusiast-driven resale market and I don't think they'll be nearly as popular as the last one at DE and track sessions as the formula for the car has seemingly changed into something closer to the Nissan GTR than the previous-gen GT3's...
Last edited by destaccado; 06-03-2013 at 10:29 PM.
06-03-2013, 10:31 PM
#14
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Gearbox drama aside I think there are still some issues:
I will hold judgement on the motor until it arrives. If it revs to 9k, makes more power, is lighter and as reliable and has no RMS issues what is there not to like? The jury is out on the reliability, but all other factors point to this being one heck of a motor. One thing about Porsche is that they really do try and overbuild their cars (except for coolant lines, Pressure Plates and Centerlocks .....lol), and I would expect nothing less from the motor.
The Mezger had run it's course, I think they squeezed as much out of it as they could warranty.
That still leaves the Rear Wheel Steer, 20" wheels, centerlocks, electric steering and no sport buckets.
As I look at that list, it makes the new car more than just a GTS, but just not a GT3. There is just too much faux going on. With contrived handling via RWS, and electric steering they won't handle like a cup car for the street, the untested motor does play a factor here as well. 20" centerlocks are a gimmicky joke, and no sports seats speaks for itself (cars n coffee).
I wouldn't call it a GTS, but I wouldn't call it a GT3 either. Car needs 8 cylinders and some torque or the rapidly improving Camaro's and Mustangs and base Corvettes and heck maybe even a CTS-V are going to leave it in the dust.
The GT3 is no longer "real" nor true to itself or it's roots. And that's not even including the transmission. And unfortunately, it's no longer one of the front runners at the track. So now what's the point? Oh yeah, to steal a few Ferrari and Lambo guys.......
I will hold judgement on the motor until it arrives. If it revs to 9k, makes more power, is lighter and as reliable and has no RMS issues what is there not to like? The jury is out on the reliability, but all other factors point to this being one heck of a motor. One thing about Porsche is that they really do try and overbuild their cars (except for coolant lines, Pressure Plates and Centerlocks .....lol), and I would expect nothing less from the motor.
The Mezger had run it's course, I think they squeezed as much out of it as they could warranty.
That still leaves the Rear Wheel Steer, 20" wheels, centerlocks, electric steering and no sport buckets.
As I look at that list, it makes the new car more than just a GTS, but just not a GT3. There is just too much faux going on. With contrived handling via RWS, and electric steering they won't handle like a cup car for the street, the untested motor does play a factor here as well. 20" centerlocks are a gimmicky joke, and no sports seats speaks for itself (cars n coffee).
I wouldn't call it a GTS, but I wouldn't call it a GT3 either. Car needs 8 cylinders and some torque or the rapidly improving Camaro's and Mustangs and base Corvettes and heck maybe even a CTS-V are going to leave it in the dust.
The GT3 is no longer "real" nor true to itself or it's roots. And that's not even including the transmission. And unfortunately, it's no longer one of the front runners at the track. So now what's the point? Oh yeah, to steal a few Ferrari and Lambo guys.......
06-03-2013, 10:41 PM
#15
Gearbox drama aside I think there are still some issues:
I will hold judgement on the motor until it arrives. If it revs to 9k, makes more power, is lighter and as reliable and has no RMS issues what is there not to like? The jury is out on the reliability, but all other factors point to this being one heck of a motor. One thing about Porsche is that they really do try and overbuild their cars (except for coolant lines, Pressure Plates and Centerlocks .....lol), and I would expect nothing less from the motor.
The Mezger had run it's course, I think they squeezed as much out of it as they could warranty.
That still leaves the Rear Wheel Steer, 20" wheels, centerlocks, electric steering and no sport buckets.
As I look at that list, it makes the new car more than just a GTS, but just not a GT3. There is just too much faux going on. With contrived handling via RWS, and electric steering they won't handle like a cup car for the street, the untested motor does play a factor here as well. 20" centerlocks are a gimmicky joke, and no sports seats speaks for itself (cars n coffee).
I wouldn't call it a GTS, but I wouldn't call it a GT3 either. Car needs 8 cylinders and some torque or the rapidly improving Camaro's and Mustangs and base Corvettes and heck maybe even a CTS-V are going to leave it in the dust.
The GT3 is no longer "real" nor true to itself or it's roots. And that's not even including the transmission. And unfortunately, it's no longer one of the front runners at the track. So now what's the point? Oh yeah, to steal a few Ferrari and Lambo guys.......
I will hold judgement on the motor until it arrives. If it revs to 9k, makes more power, is lighter and as reliable and has no RMS issues what is there not to like? The jury is out on the reliability, but all other factors point to this being one heck of a motor. One thing about Porsche is that they really do try and overbuild their cars (except for coolant lines, Pressure Plates and Centerlocks .....lol), and I would expect nothing less from the motor.
The Mezger had run it's course, I think they squeezed as much out of it as they could warranty.
That still leaves the Rear Wheel Steer, 20" wheels, centerlocks, electric steering and no sport buckets.
As I look at that list, it makes the new car more than just a GTS, but just not a GT3. There is just too much faux going on. With contrived handling via RWS, and electric steering they won't handle like a cup car for the street, the untested motor does play a factor here as well. 20" centerlocks are a gimmicky joke, and no sports seats speaks for itself (cars n coffee).
I wouldn't call it a GTS, but I wouldn't call it a GT3 either. Car needs 8 cylinders and some torque or the rapidly improving Camaro's and Mustangs and base Corvettes and heck maybe even a CTS-V are going to leave it in the dust.
The GT3 is no longer "real" nor true to itself or it's roots. And that's not even including the transmission. And unfortunately, it's no longer one of the front runners at the track. So now what's the point? Oh yeah, to steal a few Ferrari and Lambo guys.......
All we've got to do now is come up with and agree on the new car's real name.
How about 991 GTS-R
