randr

Oh really, I didn't know that oh and Dan Prosser is an EVO journo. Honest question - do you own a Porsche of any type?

Lets get this right:

(a) The pedal placement is set up for aggressive driving e.g. with v.hard braking required to allow good h and t downshifts - thus not ideal for day to day heel and toe
(b) You can't accelerate as quickly e.g. 0-60, 50-70 etc
(c) You can't maintain optimal max power under the curve
(d) less fuel efficient
(e) more emissions
(f)) money shifts and over rev counts
(g) A small number of people think its more engaging for them
(h) a large number of people prefer and buy PDK ~9:1 and a large number of them think its more fun

Yep, its journo pap - I'll be keeping my PDK cars and will be adding to the collection a PDK equipped .2 GT3RS (or Macca depending on a few things). If I want to drive a really good manual I have a hand assembled rod actuated, short geared, box in one of my cars - the fun factor is no different. The derivation of engagement comes down to the conditions and how you drive not what you drive. Ochams Razor.

I'm happy that Porsche are building manuals for those that want them - but at the end of the day, I want my performance car to deliver performance (better still that it saves on fuel, emissions etc). If I want an old style experience I'll drive a TR6. The fact remains that ~ 90% of Porsche sports cars are sold with PDK. The two "top dog" cars, TTS and GT3RS only have PDK (for a range of very good reasons), and as of yesterday, my local dealer (city ~2m people) told me that he thought they wouldn't deliver a single manual GT3 car with the current GT3 allocations list. This will be different in the US.

randr

I read it as totally sexist and patronising - so did my wife - its a common theme on Rennlist and probably accounts for the near total absence of women on the site. Contrasting sharply with or local P club ~ 50:50 ratio of male to female and in the local race series 20% of the competitors are women.

06C2s

I think its 90% of all Porsche cars and SUV not 90% of the sports cars

Considering Porsche total sales for January 2017 was 4602 vehicles and 3310 of them were Cayenne and Macan (thats over 70% of total sales) then its easy to see how we get to 90% PDK.

Now add in the fact that the average Porsche buyer is over 50 and looking for a "Sunday driver" and there you go.


On your logic of better 0-60, fuel, emissions etc.. a Tesla is by FAR better than any PDK or otherwise equipped car. What will you say when you can simply program in the track to your performance car and it picks the prefect line, braking and acceleration points and you don't even have to be behind the wheel? You just sit there for the ride like a roller coaster?

Dont flame on, Im only trying to prove how stupid this can get if we all really push it...some like manual some like PDK, some like blondes some like brunettes....its what makes the world go round..oh god I almost forgot some like boys some girls some it or other.....s**t I hate this PC crap....cant hurt any snowflakes feelings.

randr

^^^^
Unfortunately a Tesla weighs 2.2 tonnes and can't get round a track, but you're right .

Theres no point going on about it, and as you say, some simply prefer A to B. Thats fine. Some of us use our cars to the maximum potential, others don't (and probably don't want to).

But frankly, listening to the journos is simply numbing - particularly when you own the cars and they don't - talk about teaching people how to suck eggs. Peace.

1analguy

Check out the new issue of Motor Trend. The Tesla P100D Model S is now the quickest production car 0-60 (2.28 sec) they've ever tested. It weighs 4900 lbs (just over 2.5 tons with driver and timing equipment). It also does extremely well around a track, considering it's a 5 (7?) passenger sedan.

My car's maximum potential will only be realized if driving it gives me the most satisfaction possible, and for me, that can't happen with an automatic transmission. YMMV...

GregWormald

It's not the auto transmission that kills my joy. How about no exhaust sound at all, and then you drive 250 miles in one day and have to spend 5 or 6 hours at the electric outlet before you can drive off again. Forget to plug in the car and you've lost a day--forget to fill with petrol and you've lost maybe 10 minutes.

I reckon electric vehicles still have a way to go. I'm retired now, but when I was working I was doing a longer trip to work and then driving from site to site than most of the current vehicles could do on a single charge.

Greg

michaelscain

Unfortunately its only a matter of time before only electric powered PDK 911s, boxsters and caymans are available... omg what an awful souless world awaits for the next gen of car buyers... just enjoy your Porsche Flat 6 Manuals while you can...

danschy

Each generation seems to lose some of the joys of their parents while finding new ones of their own. My love of shifting a good manual transmission is probably based on having spent about 45 years perfecting the craft. Although my son also enjoys it, my 3-yr-old grandson seems likely to think of a manual shift as a strange old aberration. My father grew up on a dairy farm in the 1920-30s and often spoke of the joys of riding horses, something I've rarely done and not particularly enjoyed, but for him it was his fondest childhood memory, and I'm sure he thought I was deprived for not having experienced it.

Phil G.

You are right, and I do! It's only a matter of time until your Cayman parks itself

terbiumactivated

Yup, I like to walk in the woods but I'm sure generation next prefers the "woods app"

Zeus993

You bring up a good point. Time marches on and so do automotive changes. The question in my mind is will the next generations actually enjoy DRIVING, never mind whether it's a PDK or manual, ICE or electric?

I was observing my son last night playing an online game with buddies. He was getting full pleasure out of interacting with his buddies, making decisions to take certain actions etc... all the while barely raising a finger. It appears that the Internet has brought the world to us, V.s. us going to the world.

Each to his own, right? My solution? I'm taking him to Autocross for some real-world action!

danschy

Great idea. My son used to autocross and is still pretty interested in sports cars, despite currently driving a pickup, so maybe there is hope for my grandson. I never autocrossed, but during my son's formative years we spent many weekends up at Road America in Wisconsin.

spyderphile

Auto vs Manual: The debate will rage on, for eternity! But, it doesn't need to be. We all have preferences. And, driven by many variables in our respective life situations. As many of you pointed out, it is good to have a choice. At least, we have a choice now. When hybrids and electrics roll in, MT would be gone for good. We are probably a couple of model generations away.

PDK drivers: Here is a question you could ask MT fellas: Do you rev-match yourself or let the software do that for ya?? I find it very odd that someone driving a MT, letting the software steal half the fun!! I know the argument: it is better than any human could possibly do, every time! Isn't that a line from PDK drivers?? So, don't let the MT guys/gals off the hook!

As for me, I am an old school, stubborn, unrelenting, self-proclaimed purist. MT or bust! I am slow; and, proud of it!

2mAn

I have a Porsche book from 1980 and there is a foreword from one of the original Porsche family members and he says that Porsche will always make Sports cars and only Sports cars....

this is what it comes down to:

Do you want to believe you're an F1 driver trying to clock the fastest lap time? The answer is PDK.

Do you want to enjoy the drive, even if you arent the fastest one? Manual

I prefer a manual.

Underblu

The nice thing about Rennlist is the lack of political nonsense. There is no need for this type of PC SJW storm trooper virtue signaling on a Porsche enthusiast site.

The comments you found so offensive appear to be the truthful recounting of a moderately humorous exchange between a husband and wife. But I guess to some people, the truth and facts are not important if they don't lend themselves to a PC narrative. Afaic, There is certainly no shame in not driving stick. My wife doesn't drive a stick either. I tried teaching her several years ago but she wasn't into it. So what? What does that matter? Does that fact offend you? Does that fact reflect on the ability of Sabine Schmitz, Danica Patrick or the many other phenomenal pro female drivers?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big proponents of women's rights. But I reserve my outrage to horrible tragedies that have been allowed to occur against women in places like Rotherham England, Malmo, Sweden, and Cologne Germany.