jeff0271

You are 100% correct. Wait until everything is a hybrid and then hear them complain. You'll have a 2 cylinder horizontally opposed hybrid lol. It's called progress.

jeff0271

I think so. Nothing is getting cheaper in the world and the 718 is no exception. It is a great little car. The more you drive it the more it grows on you. The sound too surprisingly.

randr

The engine in the 718S is a little cracker - I test drove one of these in Europe (september last year) back to back with a M2 (on track and on road). I kid you not, it completely demolished the M2 - the engine was more responsive, the steering was sharper, the brakes had better modulation and on it goes.

I own a 981CGTS (Racing Yellow ) and a 991.2S (Guards Red ) and I have no hesitation in saying the 718S has the wood on the GTS (I have also seen the same track friction circles for both). The 981 in all its variants is a great car, however, its fair to say the 718 has upped the ante. Also the turbo four makes its own music as one commentator (who owned both) put it you can have "Led Zeppelin" or "The Three Tenors" its just a question of taste.

Marine Blue

So the consensus seems to be that Porsche has figured out how to make a Flat 4 Turbo with a predictable powerband that doesn't drop off at the lower/higher RPM's. Achieving this and giving the car a solid 350 Hp definitely would put it in another league and likely a solid competitor to the 911.

Now if Porsche could reduce the weight of the car it would be an unbeatable package.

Greg Fishman

As the owner of car equiped just like you stated I would give a hearty Hell Yeah!. At 60K I don't think there is much that will match the performance or sophistication. I think it is a great value.

jeff0271

Plus Techart has a tune for 400 hp out of the 2.5l. That would be interesting to drive.

erik_plus8

...and own... :/

blacksheepSpyder

I think the 718 will be great to pick up used when the turbos start wearing out or motors start imploding. Then I will put in an LS7 motor in with the help of renegade hybrids kits.

Then we will have something.

I will keep my 3.8 spyder till I am too old to get in and out, it was the only car I would trade my 914-6 GT with a 3.2 for.

Gallatin

Why do you think the motors will start imploding?

cobalt

According to "The Porsche Philosophy" A self study workbook published by PCNA.

Understanding the Porsche philosophy of building cars is a major part of appreciating the uniqueness of owning a Porsche. A central point in this philosophy is that a Porsche?

"Is entertainment that enriches your life"

So assuming this is what you get out of the 718 then you need go no further. We are all allowed our opinions. For me the 718 did not do this under normal driving conditions. No doubt it was inspiring when I was flogging it but I was quite concerned not about the engine but the tranny. The PDK was working overtime to keep the boost from becoming an issue. It was so apparent to me it took away from the experience. To me personally it was a major red flag and once i experienced it I had a hard time not focusing on it which tainted the entire experience. So therefore it does not enrich or entertain as other models have for me.

I have always been impressed by the cayman and 2nd gen up Boxster. I would say that the 718 is more of step sideways as total package than an advancement beyond as each previous revision has been.

If I want a super fast car I would buy a turbo S or GT3RS the boxster's are great cars but they are cruisers and making them super fast would do nothing for me. These cars are fast enough for a soft top IMO.

I don't get some of the comparisons. A 991 GTS is a completely different animal than a 981 or 718 and IMO the 981/718 platform is superior over a base 991 or even a GTS. The turbo and GT3 are different stories and different experiences.

randr

^^^^

Strange our impressions are so different. Also, lets be real here. Porsche have been making turbo charged engines for a long long time - they know how to do it.
The biggest single problem with turbo charged engines is the owners, specifically those that get aftermarket tunes (and moan and groan when the end up with transmission problems, engine problems, fail emissions tests and plus recurring CELS. Keep em stock and they are just as robust as NA.

How do you figure the PDK is working overtime, I find this particularly baffling given I own a NA and turbo charged Porsches - in sport mode, and depending on driving style they're really not particularly different or rather not noticeably so.

The 981 is a great platform true, but superior to the 991, perhaps in a GTS relative to a .1 - but not so relative to a .2. I have a 991.2 S and 981 GTS - the rear axle steering in the S is a big difference along with E-PTV and the new suspension set up. Honestly my S leaves my GTS for dead in the twisties. Its much much quicker.

Pep!RRRR

I'll just throw a monkey wrench into this little conversation. Where I think Porsche has gone wrong is in producing cars that are robotic, artificial, overpowered, marketing driven and UNemotional. The relevance of a sports car lies in the ability to engage a skilled driver in an appropriate setting. Porsche's design approach is a quasi rational response to the fact that very few such settings still exist.

Need to meet safety standards, fuel economy standards and noise standards? Add buttons to regulate sportiness vs economy, or to turn off "sporty exhaust sound". Make any driver a hero with 4-wheel steering, ceramic brakes, or Appleplay!

Jeez, it breaks my heart to see where we are now compared to where we've been. There was a time when you could buy a new Porsche that did not have "stability control". When the only computer function in the car was to control the air/fuel mix. When the steering was actually connected to the road and not to an electrical circuit.

So I'm not surprised that few people are lining up to buy impractical little name brand robo cars that cost $100k and up. They are not really sports cars anymore despite the performance numbers. And that is a very sad thing.

randr

^^^
You need to take your car to a track

Its still all about the driver - its the driver that is the limit of these cars not the car.

Try them and tell me there not emotional - because they are and I have tried and put my money where my mouth is

cobalt

I have driven the 991 and 981 back to back on closed courses along with the Panamera. I also teach car control. Using an undulating road surface the 991 floats and is no where near as stable or as confidence inspiring as the boxster or cayman platform. Even the Porsche factory driver had me doing things I would never consider in a 911. I don't like it when electronics do the driving for me. I see far too many people on track that think they are good drivers when it is the electronics saving their butt. Put them in my C2 and watch them crash and burn.

The PDK was constantly shifting down to keep the revs up to mask the turbo lag. I mentioned it in a thread early on long before this one. The tranny especially when going from WOT to basic driving was fighting itself. I too have a long history of turbo ownership albeit old school. Turbo Lag is something I have a good feel for and to me it was apparent the tranny was doing all the work to mask it. Lets call it 30+ years of driving Porsche's telling me this and I have to leave it at that.

In some ways I have to agree with you. I still think these are very good products and unfortunately we live in a world that wants electric self driving cars. I guess we should be grateful that we have what we do. As I said these are not bad cars although I would not place the 718 above the 981 at least the GTS and I for one appreciate the PDK but a sports car will always be a manual for me even if it is slower. For some reason we equate faster with better and that is not the case. I really enjoy the GT3's for what they can do along with the turbo S. Although unless I am on a track they are hard to enjoy on the street unless I am doing triple the speed limit. I get far more pleasure driving my air-cooled slower Porsche's than any of the newer cars. However if I am competing in say an AX event my 981GTS will be far easier to achieve faster times than the 964 even though they can be equally as fast if I am willing to work harder at it.

I enjoyed my 981GTS on the track but at the Glen it felt as though I was cheating. It felt more like a leisurely drive on a back road than driving full out on a race track. I drive a 964 3.8RS clone with twin turbo engine short ratio box and in essence faster than the 3.8RSR was in the 90's racing. It is a chore to drive and is a true E ticket experience. Nothing made today will get my heart pumping faster or offer me a connection to the road as this car does. I am out there with GT3's and turbo S's and you can watch as the cars take over and save the experienced drivers behinds. To me there is no emotion and connection to the vehicle like I get out of driving these older cars. When you drive these older cars fast on track you become one with the car and it is an extension of you and your personality. I have never experienced that piloting the newer cars.

I enjoy the 981 for what it is and it came closer to what Porsche used to offer me years ago than any of the other cars they build. The 718 lost some of that for me. These cars are street cars for me and the conveniences they offer serve a purpose. I don't need to work at getting the other cars out of storage and check everything before driving off the new cars does all of that for you and if a tire is low on pressure it warns you. So there are advantages. I also don't get harassed every time I go someplace. People attack you when you drive the older cars asking if I want to sell all the time it is becoming annoying.

I completely agree it is all about the driver. Very few of us can extract close to what these cars are capable of and as you get closer to the edge it does become easier to fall off.

Pep!RRRR

Heh. I did 22 track days last year in my 981 Cayman. Base model with X73, racing seats, harnesses, rollbar, brakes etc. But if we are talking about $100k heavily optioned 718s, those would be pretty expensive to track, and not a particularly wise thing to do without significant safety mods.