718 impressions
06-24-2016, 03:39 PM
#61
So now a typical dealer spec'd 718 is listed up at 90k
equivalent to 981 Boxster Spyder cost level. Is anybody believing it's a better
car than a Spyder?
The problem Porsche has is one of cost more than sound and motor.
Cost vs competition.
And the 718 isn't going to appeal to a Rennlist purist type crowd much,
or anyone who reads the enthusiast reviews.
Porsche needs to sell a lot in China and new markets,
so maybe it's a aspirational sale to semi-nouveau riche in those areas.
But it seems over-priced.
2017 series *should* outsell the '15-'16 Boxster, being a new model,
but I doubt it will expand sales over the next 4 years.
I'm personally already tired of the heavy Porsche propaganda push on
how great and historic the 4 cylinder is. But then I remember
that Porsche is mainly a marketing juggernaut.
equivalent to 981 Boxster Spyder cost level. Is anybody believing it's a better
car than a Spyder?
The problem Porsche has is one of cost more than sound and motor.
Cost vs competition.
And the 718 isn't going to appeal to a Rennlist purist type crowd much,
or anyone who reads the enthusiast reviews.
Porsche needs to sell a lot in China and new markets,
so maybe it's a aspirational sale to semi-nouveau riche in those areas.
But it seems over-priced.
2017 series *should* outsell the '15-'16 Boxster, being a new model,
but I doubt it will expand sales over the next 4 years.
I'm personally already tired of the heavy Porsche propaganda push on
how great and historic the 4 cylinder is. But then I remember
that Porsche is mainly a marketing juggernaut.
06-24-2016, 04:54 PM
#62
I'm not a fan of the price point. Time will tell if that was a mistake, but Porsche's are red hot right now and it's their job to make money. Would I rather have the Spyder? Absolutely, in fact I would rather have my 987.2 spyder than the new 718 but I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. This car is an evolution of the boxster base and boxster s, Would I rather have a 718s or a 981s? I think that's a more relevant question. Honestly, I would have to drive them both and I haven't. I might drive them both just for fun but i'm not in the market for a new convertable right now (don't tell the dealer, I have some test driving to do). I just think it's unfair to write off 718's because you think the motor doesn't sound like last gens. I'd have to get the whole big picture before I would draw conclusions. As to comparing to competition, there is none. Even the reviews point out that the 718 is still vastly superior to anything comparable out there. So it's only real competition is to the last gen Boxster. Enthusiast , who want the best midengined sports car on the market will still look to the 718 and hopefully, if they are real car guys they won't let a bunch of reviews be the final arbiter of their opinion. I don't buy/drive cars because of what magazines or forums tell me. I sit in them and drive them and decide if I agree or don't agree. Heck some factions on this board think Porsche stopped making cars in 1998. Others sneer at Boxsters, even spyders. I've read about how BMW is no different than Toyota on this site. I've even read of people already insinuating that anyone that would buy a 718 is a poser
.
.
06-24-2016, 07:08 PM
#63
. And yes, I'd definitely drive a 718 if offered to judge Porsche's progress. And same with the 3L 911s. But it hasn't been great with the 911T. My buddy tells me the best effort so far is his McLaren 650S, with variable pitch turbos. I drove it shortly, but not aggressively, to judge better. No turbo lag (due to a relatively large engine on a low weight car), but you can immediately feel the overboosted low-rpm TQ typical of turbo cars, which I don't like at all, especially on a sports car.
06-24-2016, 08:05 PM
#64
Three Wheelin'
I have had five different Porsches over the last 22 years and I am a huge NA flat six fan. I don't have a problem with the 4 cylinder engine as that is the way the Bureaucrats are pushing the car companies.
I will be surprised if this car sells well at all. The cost difference between my 2014 981 S and the new car on a two-year lease was approximately $13,000.
I did not push too hard to find out if I could do better once I heard the number but the basic reasons are the 2014 S comparably equipped was $5000 cheaper retail price, I was able to get 7% off on the 2014 and only 5% off on the new 718 and the 718 has a $2500 lower residual than the 2014 did.
I am sure once the car is out for a while if the 718 Porsches are not selling well they will start manipulating the leases to move the cars off the lots.
I will be surprised if this car sells well at all. The cost difference between my 2014 981 S and the new car on a two-year lease was approximately $13,000.
I did not push too hard to find out if I could do better once I heard the number but the basic reasons are the 2014 S comparably equipped was $5000 cheaper retail price, I was able to get 7% off on the 2014 and only 5% off on the new 718 and the 718 has a $2500 lower residual than the 2014 did.
I am sure once the car is out for a while if the 718 Porsches are not selling well they will start manipulating the leases to move the cars off the lots.
06-25-2016, 09:48 AM
#65
The 718's 10% faster steering doesn't excite me very much, but I wonder if Porsche's suspension "improvements" for the 718 were just spring rate changes and damping modifications to compensate for the turbo 4's additional 132 lbs weight penalty. 
06-25-2016, 04:09 PM
#67
Rennlist Member
It seems that most of the changes that were made to the 718 were aimed at making the car more attractive on a test drive, yet less appealing to own in the long run.
06-25-2016, 04:19 PM
#68
They made the same steering improvement to the Spyder and I can tell you it steers better than my 981 CS and it is easier to put the car exactly where I want it to be in a corner. It is definitely an improvement, so if they did the same to the 718, it's an improvement.
Also, regarding the new suspension, I have two data points that lead me to believe its a lot better as well. The supposed X73 suspension in my Spyder is way better than the X73 in my 981 CS, more compliant, better damping, but performs just as well when the going gets rapid. And having test drove the .2 991 against my .1, I can also tell you Porsche has made big improvements in the suspension on that car. Of all the changes, I'm convinced that the biggest is how Porsche has deployed improved suspension across the board that is a big step forward.
The big issue IMO still comes down to throttle response. The 718 is better in every way than the 981 save for sound and, possibly, throttle response. Just got the latest issue of Panorama and their reviewer commented that there was no real lag, but that the throttle response was not as good as the 981. But he also said you don't miss it with all the additional torque in the car.
Also, regarding the new suspension, I have two data points that lead me to believe its a lot better as well. The supposed X73 suspension in my Spyder is way better than the X73 in my 981 CS, more compliant, better damping, but performs just as well when the going gets rapid. And having test drove the .2 991 against my .1, I can also tell you Porsche has made big improvements in the suspension on that car. Of all the changes, I'm convinced that the biggest is how Porsche has deployed improved suspension across the board that is a big step forward.
The big issue IMO still comes down to throttle response. The 718 is better in every way than the 981 save for sound and, possibly, throttle response. Just got the latest issue of Panorama and their reviewer commented that there was no real lag, but that the throttle response was not as good as the 981. But he also said you don't miss it with all the additional torque in the car.
06-26-2016, 02:44 AM
#71
They made the same steering improvement to the Spyder and I can tell you it steers better than my 981 CS and it is easier to put the car exactly where I want it to be in a corner. It is definitely an improvement, so if they did the same to the 718, it's an improvement.
Also, regarding the new suspension, I have two data points that lead me to believe its a lot better as well. The supposed X73 suspension in my Spyder is way better than the X73 in my 981 CS, more compliant, better damping, but performs just as well when the going gets rapid. And having test drove the .2 991 against my .1, I can also tell you Porsche has made big improvements in the suspension on that car. Of all the changes, I'm convinced that the biggest is how Porsche has deployed improved suspension across the board that is a big step forward.
The big issue IMO still comes down to throttle response. The 718 is better in every way than the 981 save for sound and, possibly, throttle response. Just got the latest issue of Panorama and their reviewer commented that there was no real lag, but that the throttle response was not as good as the 981. But he also said you don't miss it with all the additional torque in the car.
Also, regarding the new suspension, I have two data points that lead me to believe its a lot better as well. The supposed X73 suspension in my Spyder is way better than the X73 in my 981 CS, more compliant, better damping, but performs just as well when the going gets rapid. And having test drove the .2 991 against my .1, I can also tell you Porsche has made big improvements in the suspension on that car. Of all the changes, I'm convinced that the biggest is how Porsche has deployed improved suspension across the board that is a big step forward.
The big issue IMO still comes down to throttle response. The 718 is better in every way than the 981 save for sound and, possibly, throttle response. Just got the latest issue of Panorama and their reviewer commented that there was no real lag, but that the throttle response was not as good as the 981. But he also said you don't miss it with all the additional torque in the car.
The 991.2 is actually playing catch up with the 981 and for reference both are within a bees dick of a 458 Italia (23.6s), which in turn is within a bees dick of a 981 GT4 (23.5s) in this standard test. The suspension differences in the 718 are neccesary to accommodate a slightly different weight distribution and slightly heavier overall kerb weight, both the 981 and 718 have inverted struts so we are talking about minor differences in spring rates and sway bar thickness (and possible changes to geometry along with recalibrated PASM) - this may yield better results on some roads and worse results on others.
I believe the new 718S is on the new N1 P Zeros (z4) - which are a significant improvement over the old N0s. This alone will yield a reasonable improvement in grip and traction.
The throttle response is not better - all competent reviewers have pointed out some lag, particularly in the base model and its important to note that anti lag type strategies usually have a wear and tear consequence too.
My personal view, having recently been to an unveiling is the new 718 is a handsome looking car with improved brakes somewhat compromised by a 4 pot turbo which lacks soul. The Boxster/Cayman has lost a key point of differentiation - something the silly (and crass) 1000 race winning marketing strategy can not hide (even worse given these wins occurred 40 to 50 years ago).
The general impression that I have formed of the P car world is that most owners and buyers (of sports cars) are in their late 40s to early 50s, relatively well off and are, in the main, NOT car enthusiasts. Thus, for most, the move to a 4 pot turbo won't make one iota of difference, and in fact for some, may look like a step forward.
Last edited by randr; 06-26-2016 at 03:56 AM.
06-26-2016, 09:40 AM
#72
Race Car
Sorry, 4 cyl, inferior sound quality to NA six. "Handsome?" I don't think so either from the front or rear views. Especially, the rear re-design. Just not a car I would take a second look at. Would probably either go with a 911 or even a Jaguar F-type V6 6MT. Very happy with what I have and staying with it.
06-27-2016, 06:20 PM
#73
