Impressions of my 981 Boxster w/ BGB 3.8L 991S conversion
10-02-2013, 07:13 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Impressions of my 981 Boxster w/ BGB 3.8L 991S conversion
So as some on this forum know, I recently acquired a 2013 Boxster and had BGB Motorsports do their 3.8L conversion on the car. For those not familiar w/ BGB they are a professional race team that's campaigned both 911s and Caymans in the Grand Am / Continental Tire series with some success over the last decade. More recently they've expanded into street / retail business with conversion and tuning of Porsches, including converting 981 Cayman/Boxster with the 3.8L 991S motor and brakes.
For context I used to have an '05 987.1 Boxster S and also own some older air-cooled 911s. I wanted to replace my Boxster with a new Porsche, preferably with a little more pep but retaining the agility of the Boxster and preferably an open top car. I test drove the 991S which is a fantastic car all around, but couldn't get used to the "bigger" feel of it in the corners compared to my Boxster. I investigated a RUF 3800S which transplants the 991S engine to a 981 and adds RUF aesthetics and goodness. While a RUF VIN'd car certainly carries some cachet and potentially increased resale value, there would have been a ~6mo wait to order one and I have a hard time seeing it be good value for money at ~$140K.
I learned about BGB's conversions through Rennlist actually here in a thread where they described the first Cayman conversion. I contacted John Tecce at BGB and pretty quickly signed on to do one with a Boxster. It may be possible to do this with a 987.2 Boxster, but I love the look of the 981s and so found a base Boxster donor car in Speed Yellow with 6sp at a dealership in TX and purchased it and had it shipped directly to BGB.
The base conversion involves swapping the motor for a brand new factory 3.8L 991S motor which in stock form produces 400hp and 325lb-ft of torque. BMC high flow intake filters are also fitted. In addition the front brake calipers are swapped for the 6 piston 991S units. The car for me is a street machine rather than a track weapon and so I've set it up as such, with "sleeper" aesthetics and thus far retaining stock suspension. But the BGB conversion can also include H&R springs, Forgeline wheels, suede wheel / shift boot / e-brake cover, rocker panel graphics, etc. For my car I just spec'd powder-coated calipers (Bengal Yellow which essentially matches the car) and Fabspeed dual exhaust tips. First pic below is a montage of in-progress shots at BGB, the last two are in my garage.
Couple folks have asked about costs involved. The donor car I bought is a 2013 base Boxster which had actually been traded in with just a couple thousand miles, so I bought it from a Porsche dealer who was selling it as CPO (I skipped the CPO cost since the powertrain warranty is obviously voided). So my donor car was around $52-53K. The conversion costs vary based on what you do beyond the core motor/brakes... for example my car already had 20" Carrera rims I was happy with so I skipped wheels. My conversion bill was in the low $20K's, though if you did wheels, suspension, more aesthetic stuff you might get up to the ~$30K range. But even including my transport costs I'm at around $80K all in for this project which to me feels like a fantastic deal.
Couple folks have also asked about warranty.... obviously you void factory warranty for the stuff that's modified. But theoretically the warranty should apply to the rest of the car, e.g. if my power window switch breaks I'm pretty sure Porsche will replace that. I have a good relationship w/ the dealer in my area (as well as indy shops) so I'm comfortable that it'll be fine. BGB also provides a chunk of "warranty" labor hours either at that shop or reimbursement to an approved shop in your area if something goes wrong. Lastly we're talking about a straight motor swap so a Porsche dealer or good indy shops that know 991/981s should have no problem servicing. So overall I've got plenty of peace of mind and sleep soundly at night w/r/t the car.
Car just arrived to me Sunday evening so my impressions here are based just on 3 days of driving it mostly on my daily commute, which has a couple decent windy bits but is majority freeway cruise. Again this is a street car which isn't a daily driver per se, but where I'll use it frequently as an everyday kinda car with perhaps the occasional DE. I'm doing a DE next week at NH Motor Speedway so I'll give some on-track perspectives then, though I've only done a handful of track days so I'm not a hardcore racer.
It goes without saying that the car has ample power with the 3.8L motor. I'm not driving to excess in the first few hundred miles breaking in the motor, but have run it up to 7K or so (redline is 7800) on a couple occasions. My initial hopes of getting the Boxster "Porsche should have built" seem to be true. The motor really screams yet the car feels lithe and well-balanced as the 981s do. The way I'd describe it is that the engine revs "effortlessly"... obviously you feel it when you put your foot down to accelerate, but ironically I notice it most when blipping throttle on downshifts. It makes a tremendous noise too though with the top up and stock exhaust (except for tips) it's not exactly a loud car. And the 981 chassis really is superb.
The few quirks I've noticed so far are mainly about the 981 itself rather than the BGB conversion. When you get your foot on the brakes the 991S calipers and the Boxster's already large stock discs really stop the car fast. But the feel on the pedal is a little mushy for the first half inch or inch of travel, not like my 993TT where you breathe on the pedal and it feels like a rock. John said this can be remedied pretty easily by swapping the master cylinder for a GT3 unit which should be a pretty straight swap. Small things which are a little weird... all the engine telemetry from the 991 motor works fine like coolant temp, oil temp, etc. But while your fuel gauge remains accurate in terms of the level in the tank, the DTE (distance to empty) calculation can get thrown off given the induction and fuel distribution are all different than the original motor.
So overall I'm completely thrilled with the car. I'll post more here as I drive it more and happy to field questions from Rennlister's who are wondering about BGB's conversion. Again I can't say enough good things about John Tecce and the crew at BGB. They've been a pleasure to work with and John gave me his straight, no BS advice from years of racing as we completed this build.
For context I used to have an '05 987.1 Boxster S and also own some older air-cooled 911s. I wanted to replace my Boxster with a new Porsche, preferably with a little more pep but retaining the agility of the Boxster and preferably an open top car. I test drove the 991S which is a fantastic car all around, but couldn't get used to the "bigger" feel of it in the corners compared to my Boxster. I investigated a RUF 3800S which transplants the 991S engine to a 981 and adds RUF aesthetics and goodness. While a RUF VIN'd car certainly carries some cachet and potentially increased resale value, there would have been a ~6mo wait to order one and I have a hard time seeing it be good value for money at ~$140K.
I learned about BGB's conversions through Rennlist actually here in a thread where they described the first Cayman conversion. I contacted John Tecce at BGB and pretty quickly signed on to do one with a Boxster. It may be possible to do this with a 987.2 Boxster, but I love the look of the 981s and so found a base Boxster donor car in Speed Yellow with 6sp at a dealership in TX and purchased it and had it shipped directly to BGB.
The base conversion involves swapping the motor for a brand new factory 3.8L 991S motor which in stock form produces 400hp and 325lb-ft of torque. BMC high flow intake filters are also fitted. In addition the front brake calipers are swapped for the 6 piston 991S units. The car for me is a street machine rather than a track weapon and so I've set it up as such, with "sleeper" aesthetics and thus far retaining stock suspension. But the BGB conversion can also include H&R springs, Forgeline wheels, suede wheel / shift boot / e-brake cover, rocker panel graphics, etc. For my car I just spec'd powder-coated calipers (Bengal Yellow which essentially matches the car) and Fabspeed dual exhaust tips. First pic below is a montage of in-progress shots at BGB, the last two are in my garage.
Couple folks have asked about costs involved. The donor car I bought is a 2013 base Boxster which had actually been traded in with just a couple thousand miles, so I bought it from a Porsche dealer who was selling it as CPO (I skipped the CPO cost since the powertrain warranty is obviously voided). So my donor car was around $52-53K. The conversion costs vary based on what you do beyond the core motor/brakes... for example my car already had 20" Carrera rims I was happy with so I skipped wheels. My conversion bill was in the low $20K's, though if you did wheels, suspension, more aesthetic stuff you might get up to the ~$30K range. But even including my transport costs I'm at around $80K all in for this project which to me feels like a fantastic deal.
Couple folks have also asked about warranty.... obviously you void factory warranty for the stuff that's modified. But theoretically the warranty should apply to the rest of the car, e.g. if my power window switch breaks I'm pretty sure Porsche will replace that. I have a good relationship w/ the dealer in my area (as well as indy shops) so I'm comfortable that it'll be fine. BGB also provides a chunk of "warranty" labor hours either at that shop or reimbursement to an approved shop in your area if something goes wrong. Lastly we're talking about a straight motor swap so a Porsche dealer or good indy shops that know 991/981s should have no problem servicing. So overall I've got plenty of peace of mind and sleep soundly at night w/r/t the car.
Car just arrived to me Sunday evening so my impressions here are based just on 3 days of driving it mostly on my daily commute, which has a couple decent windy bits but is majority freeway cruise. Again this is a street car which isn't a daily driver per se, but where I'll use it frequently as an everyday kinda car with perhaps the occasional DE. I'm doing a DE next week at NH Motor Speedway so I'll give some on-track perspectives then, though I've only done a handful of track days so I'm not a hardcore racer.
It goes without saying that the car has ample power with the 3.8L motor. I'm not driving to excess in the first few hundred miles breaking in the motor, but have run it up to 7K or so (redline is 7800) on a couple occasions. My initial hopes of getting the Boxster "Porsche should have built" seem to be true. The motor really screams yet the car feels lithe and well-balanced as the 981s do. The way I'd describe it is that the engine revs "effortlessly"... obviously you feel it when you put your foot down to accelerate, but ironically I notice it most when blipping throttle on downshifts. It makes a tremendous noise too though with the top up and stock exhaust (except for tips) it's not exactly a loud car. And the 981 chassis really is superb.
The few quirks I've noticed so far are mainly about the 981 itself rather than the BGB conversion. When you get your foot on the brakes the 991S calipers and the Boxster's already large stock discs really stop the car fast. But the feel on the pedal is a little mushy for the first half inch or inch of travel, not like my 993TT where you breathe on the pedal and it feels like a rock. John said this can be remedied pretty easily by swapping the master cylinder for a GT3 unit which should be a pretty straight swap. Small things which are a little weird... all the engine telemetry from the 991 motor works fine like coolant temp, oil temp, etc. But while your fuel gauge remains accurate in terms of the level in the tank, the DTE (distance to empty) calculation can get thrown off given the induction and fuel distribution are all different than the original motor.
So overall I'm completely thrilled with the car. I'll post more here as I drive it more and happy to field questions from Rennlister's who are wondering about BGB's conversion. Again I can't say enough good things about John Tecce and the crew at BGB. They've been a pleasure to work with and John gave me his straight, no BS advice from years of racing as we completed this build.
10-02-2013, 07:40 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
Nicely done! We will be awaiting the post break-in comments! Reminds me of when I took my 88 Club Sport and had a 3.6 transplant done. The car Porsche should have built !!
10-03-2013, 12:52 AM
#3
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
how long did it take? from day car hits BGB to the day it left BGB?
john at BGB is a genius on these conversions.
john at BGB is a genius on these conversions.
10-03-2013, 01:03 AM
#4
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Congrats. Fantastic project. I'm tempted to do same with my 987.2 Spyder. With another 80hp, it would be a perfect car.
What happens to the ECU though? Don't you basically need to convert the electronics to a 991? I'm always confused by the drop in motor concept without converting other aspects of the car.
What happens to the ECU though? Don't you basically need to convert the electronics to a 991? I'm always confused by the drop in motor concept without converting other aspects of the car.
10-03-2013, 03:41 AM
#5
Clarification on Color
lee88: Are you sure the color of your 2013 981 Boxster is not 'Racing Yellow' rather than 'Speed Yellow'?
Looking forward to getting more feedback on this 3.8 conversion as you experience more time behind the wheel.
By the way, what kind of $ credit did you get for the base Boxster's 2.7 engine and is that factored in your 'low $20K's' total conversion bill?
Saludos,
Eduardo
Looking forward to getting more feedback on this 3.8 conversion as you experience more time behind the wheel.
By the way, what kind of $ credit did you get for the base Boxster's 2.7 engine and is that factored in your 'low $20K's' total conversion bill?
Saludos,
Eduardo
Last edited by Z356; 10-04-2013 at 01:14 PM. Reason: Corrected for size of base 981 Boxster's motor. Thanks Meteor10.
10-03-2013, 07:27 AM
#6
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Good write-up. Car looks great.
10-03-2013, 10:02 AM
#7
Racer
Thread Starter
My car start to finish took a little over two months, but in fairness to BGB I caught them right in the middle of their busy racing season in July & August and they're still ramping up capacity to do these street conversions. I believe John's goal going forward is to complete them in <30 days from arrival at BGB's shop in Florida. Also I originally wanted to do a funky powder-coat on the calipers (red/black/yellow like German flag) and the powder-coater's first attempt didn't pass either my or John's review, so that slowed things down w/ my car. The final powder-coat in straight yellow came out awesome and I'm very pleased.
I believe it retains the stock 981 ECU, which can "talk" to other DFI Porsche motors like the 991S. This would not work with a non-DFI type motor, e.g. Mezger from GT3 or something. When they drop in the 991S motor, BGB tests everything to make sure there are no ECU faults. I'm not an ECU expert here so I'll defer to BGB on more specific questions.
Yes, you are correct... confused my yellows here but the Boxster color is "Racing Yellow" though it's pretty close to Speed Yellow, probably a little less close to orange than Speed. The photos above are in florescent lighting so it looks a little more "highlighter" yellow than "banana" yellow, but in natural light that isn't the case.
The cost figures above are net of the engine core swap, e.g. the OEM 991S motor costs more but then you get credit for the 981 motor that's exchanged but I couldn't tell you what the respective cost and credit are. So the figures are my net, all-in costs... I gave BGB a base 981 Boxster with a 2.7L motor and ~$21-22K and they gave me a 981 Boxster with a 3.8L 991S motor and all of their labor. Again if you did wheels, springs, and more aesthetic stuff in addition to the conversion you'd be in high $20s or close to $30K.
The cost figures above are net of the engine core swap, e.g. the OEM 991S motor costs more but then you get credit for the 981 motor that's exchanged but I couldn't tell you what the respective cost and credit are. So the figures are my net, all-in costs... I gave BGB a base 981 Boxster with a 2.7L motor and ~$21-22K and they gave me a 981 Boxster with a 3.8L 991S motor and all of their labor. Again if you did wheels, springs, and more aesthetic stuff in addition to the conversion you'd be in high $20s or close to $30K.
Last edited by lee88; 10-03-2013 at 09:25 PM. Reason: Added clarification & fixed typo
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10-03-2013, 11:48 AM
#8
lee, thank you for the great write up.
I had a similar question concerning the ECU and such. Do you know if your car was dynoed? I wonder what was changed on the 981 to accommodate the 991S motor. IIRC, lot of the power in 3.8L comes from larger TB +/- different plenum, larger headers and exhaust, different ECU map, etc., not just from the extra displacement. This is why the early 3.8L adapters had trouble getting significant hp increase until the ECU was remapped, though I'm sure John Tecce knows a thing or two (or hundreds) about 3.8L conversions and everything was taken into account.
I had a similar question concerning the ECU and such. Do you know if your car was dynoed? I wonder what was changed on the 981 to accommodate the 991S motor. IIRC, lot of the power in 3.8L comes from larger TB +/- different plenum, larger headers and exhaust, different ECU map, etc., not just from the extra displacement. This is why the early 3.8L adapters had trouble getting significant hp increase until the ECU was remapped, though I'm sure John Tecce knows a thing or two (or hundreds) about 3.8L conversions and everything was taken into account.
10-03-2013, 12:22 PM
#9
Racer
Thread Starter
lee, thank you for the great write up.
I had a similar question concerning the ECU and such. Do you know if your car was dynoed? I wonder what was changed on the 981 to accommodate the 991S motor. IIRC, lot of the power in 3.8L comes from larger TB +/- different plenum, larger headers and exhaust, different ECU map, etc., not just from the extra displacement. This is why the early 3.8L adapters had trouble getting significant hp increase until the ECU was remapped, though I'm sure John Tecce knows a thing or two (or hundreds) about 3.8L conversions and everything was taken into account.
I had a similar question concerning the ECU and such. Do you know if your car was dynoed? I wonder what was changed on the 981 to accommodate the 991S motor. IIRC, lot of the power in 3.8L comes from larger TB +/- different plenum, larger headers and exhaust, different ECU map, etc., not just from the extra displacement. This is why the early 3.8L adapters had trouble getting significant hp increase until the ECU was remapped, though I'm sure John Tecce knows a thing or two (or hundreds) about 3.8L conversions and everything was taken into account.
I believe you're correct that 3.8L motor's increased output does come from the induction phase in particular (obviously impacted mechanically by plenum and electronically by ECU). But honestly I'm not terribly knowledgeable about these motors. I can tell you the car has not yet been dynoed. John & I talked about remapping ECU in the future as software becomes available for 981/991 so I might consider a dyno at that point. I'm not sure but BGB may have dynoed the sister car to mine (black 981 Cayman conversion they did), but not certain.
10-03-2013, 01:07 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
yes you did it, the Boxster and Cayman that Porsche should build. I do not get it from Porsche, I have a 911 because of kids, and would still buy it even if the Cayman had the same power. Now if I wanted a 2 seater, your Boxster or a proper Cayman is what I would like to have. I don't get it.
Congrats, great choice, If I did not have kids I would do the same, I do like to Cayman and Boxster lines more than the 991.
Congrats, great choice, If I did not have kids I would do the same, I do like to Cayman and Boxster lines more than the 991.
10-03-2013, 02:38 PM
#12
very nice!
love the color, too
have fun at the DE
love the color, too
have fun at the DE
10-03-2013, 07:31 PM
#13
Instructor
This is awesome. I have been eyeing up a 981 Boxster S as my next car.....but i sorta wanted more since i have already owned 2 Caymans (one being an R) and a Boxster Spyder. But this sounds like it would totally up the ante of the next Boxster.
I would love to see more photos of your car in general and also know more about the 991 motor you have. Is it a BASE 3.8 or can you get the X51 stuff, Sport Exhaust (with button) option, etc. Also, forgive me if you stated it but can this be done with a PDK Car and is your car PDK?
Thanks so much for this write up!
I would love to see more photos of your car in general and also know more about the 991 motor you have. Is it a BASE 3.8 or can you get the X51 stuff, Sport Exhaust (with button) option, etc. Also, forgive me if you stated it but can this be done with a PDK Car and is your car PDK?
Thanks so much for this write up!
10-03-2013, 08:54 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
[
I gave BGB a base 981 Boxster with a 3.4L motor
I am confused, I thought the base 981 had a 2.7 liter motor.
But great post, I'm really interested in the future feedback on your car and I am really interested in this concept of making the Boxster the car it should be. In my opinion the Boxster, Cayman, Carrera GT and now the 918 Spyder are the most exciting Porsches in recent years, of course very different price points for these models but your Boxster upgrade is a visionary move, well done!
I gave BGB a base 981 Boxster with a 3.4L motor
I am confused, I thought the base 981 had a 2.7 liter motor.
But great post, I'm really interested in the future feedback on your car and I am really interested in this concept of making the Boxster the car it should be. In my opinion the Boxster, Cayman, Carrera GT and now the 918 Spyder are the most exciting Porsches in recent years, of course very different price points for these models but your Boxster upgrade is a visionary move, well done!
10-03-2013, 08:57 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
Superb. Granted it's not a Ruf with a vin but BGB does mean something here in the states. Well thought out vision and execution - congrats.