Ben951S

Hi Rennlist,

Short Version: Clutch will not depress. Not spongy, has maybe a half inch of pre-travel, then stops hard. Initially, pedal went to the floor, I lifted it up, and now it is locked hard. Releasing clutch fluid at the master allowed the pedal to go down. Documented clutch history (930 clutch, master, and slave) in 2008 (30-40k)

Long Version: Session two at the track, no problems. Only using 3rd and 4th gear, practicing heal toe and rev-matching (no pushing the clutch in and staging in third gear, then releasing, as that would over-rev the clutch). Finish my second session, I'm in the pits dropping off my instruction, and was coasting in with the clutch out, in neutral. Push the pedal into the floor to pick up second gear, and it goes to the floor, hard. I just coasted to his location, stopped the car, lifted up the pedal, and now it is locked HARD. (see short version). It now has no travel downward. Had a tech help me bleed some fluid from the master by the firewall, and the pedal went down. It also starts and idles and revs fine. It makes no bad noises when just idling. Shifts into all forward gears when off. Clutch and master and slave replaced and documented by PO (with shop receipt) in 2008, 30-40k miles ago.

I've heard that it could be the lining spun/fell off the clutch (previous owner abuse?), clutch fork broke, or throw out bearing failed.

Having a shop do some diagnosis (remove the slave and inspect the clutch fork, and anything else they can think of that is reasonable).

1) What should I ask the shop to do?
2) What do you think it is?

Fun Fact: Since I've had the car, periodically, the car would feel 'stuck' in second gear, meaning it would be more difficult than it should be to pull the shifter out of second gear. If you clutched back in, and out, it would come out smooth like it should. Clutch fork?

Thank you... [will keep searching but not finding a 'stuck up' pedal!]

Ben951S

Anyone? Shop is going to call me soon and I want to have an idea as where else to turn? =(

968 GUY

Clutch fork bearings, throwout bearing, bad slave or master cyl., hose bad. Could be any or all.
Just be cause something was replaced recently does not mean it did not go bad again.
Listen to what the mechanic tells you but if you have questions after the work is done, make sure you get the old parts.

Van

I bet the throwout bearing guide tube has broken. Was it replaced when the clutch was done? These should always be replaced, because they brake off and bind up against the throwout bearing...

Ben951S

I don't think I saw that on the parts list. I doubt that is something that can be replaced easily, can it?

TexasRider

There are no parts easily replaced on a 951 clutch except the slave. I really doubt that the slave is what this is as it sounds more like throwout bearings etc.

A clutch replacement on the 951 is a big job.

But it would certainly pay to have them check the slave, hoses, master cylinder, etc first to be double sure to diagnose the problem before setting in to the clutch internals.

Van

I've never seen a slave or master go where the clutch pedal didn't go to the floor.

Something is mechanically locking up the movement of the throwout bearing. Other than the guide tube, the only other thing I've seen that does that is a broken piece of a clutch spring getting wedged in the pressure plate fingers...

TexasRider

^^^^^^

Agreed.

I thought about the springs too, but either way a trip in there will most probably be in order. Once you go in there you might want to consider clutch replacement, plus the bearings, guides, bolts, dampening springs, etc as the car is seeing track duty. As with most 951 repairs, you dont want to have to do this again soon.

Paragon has some parts in kit form the last time I was looking.

Suprang

Had this happen on another car of mine... it was the throwout bearing, jamming up the fork.
Good luck

Ben951S

So is any of this do-able/put back-able without a full clutch job or should I just get my head around the fact now and start planning for it.

Just sucks as I had a full clutch and hydraulics job done by a shop (PO receipt) to the tune of ~$4500 and I thought that made the car a safer bet.

TexasRider

First, what did the shop find? What did they say ?

You might not need some parts like the disc etc, but you would have to look at that and see when it is all out. I certainly would replace anything suspect at 30-40,000 miles. And the small parts whether that is seals, springs, bolts, bearings etc .

The 30 to 40,000 miles can be a pretty fair amount of time and wear on a clutch depending on a lot of factors.

Ben951S

Shop hasn't even called me yet. I'll let them store it as long as they want since I am just getting my head around this (saving for a house, just bad timing). I would replace the clutch, etc, rod bearings, oil pan gasket, since access is there...

I really wanted to hold off until I could do an LSX swap of sorts...

Suprang

If it is the throwout bearing, I would do a standard new clutch, pressure plate, throwout/pilot bearing, resurface flywheel and call it a day. Unless your disc and pp are in great shape, it's a lot of labour and $$ to be putting back worn out parts. If you want to go all out; be prepared to spend unfortunately.

TexasRider

While it is likely inside the clutch, I would at least give them the Ok for 1 hour or so of shop time to diagnose the problem.

Then you can at least get an estimate from them of the total , keeping in mind you can make some parts calls when you inspect them. It is too hard to guess until you can see it.

My 0.02.

Ben951S

Right, I am going to have them diagnose it (I'd be happy if they only charge an hour but it's not that type of shop, we'll say). I am going to pray a previous saint of a rennlist member is willing to take my money and let me help and we knock it out in a weekend. He already bailed me out once this year so we'll see how #2 goes should it come to pass.