JDS968

Go complain about all the people with their old broken down cars leaking unburned fuel, burning oil, and misfiring before you complain about my car just because I don't catalyze the properly combusted exhaust from a well-tuned SEFI engine. Two or three of these cars pollutes the air more than every 968 in North America running properly, but without a cat.

Furthermore, once you've gone on your crusade and repaired all of those beaters, and you're ready to come back to me and complain...riddle me this, Batman: When I used to drive around in a carburetted '76 TR6, I was spewing something on the order of 4000 times as much pollution per mile as a 968 with a cat (so maybe 2000 times as much as a 968 without a cat). So is EVERY driver of any classic car an *** for not crushing it?

I mean driving a mile in, say, an E-type, instead of a Corolla, increases my pollution thousands of times more than taking the cat off a modern car. So if I'm an ***, does that make every 356 driver liable for crimes against humanity?

Carbon dioxide (which is what people refer to these days when they incorrectly say "carbon") is not pollution. That's what you get when you drive a big SUV getting poor gas mileage. Pollution is unburned hydrocarbons (fuel), carbon monoxide, oxides of nitrogen, particulates (soot), etc, which have very little to do with the size of your engine or gas mileage, and everything to do with how cleanly your engine burns fuel, due to design, tuning, and maintenance. A 6.2L Chevy Suburban burns much, much, much cleaner than a 479cc Fiat 500.

I know that Lexan can be hardcoated to resist scratching, maybe the dye could be mixed into that coating?

odurandina

sure,

and cats are so controversial that German auto engineers debated whether they were even worth it,

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-42761734.html, since all cats do is make you burn more gas....

and they create an enormous problem once they clog up. sure they clean the air in a properly tuned car, and do it very well when you're putting around town... but 15 year old, well-preserved sports cars are still, more green than building new hybrid SUVs.

rebuilding engines is way greener than building a new car.

the reason we have smog is stagnant air. the reason we have high carbon emmissions and soot, and leech mercury into our waters is because we drive big SUVs and trucks, burn thousands of tons of coal and oil every day for electricity and then we heat our homes with diesel oil and natural gas. --- what we really need to do is die and save the planet.


.

rgs944

"rebuilding engines is way greener than building a new car." The rath of Obama is coming after you on that one!

JDS968

Thing about cats is, as I see it, they're an answer to a question nobody's asking (anymore). Back in the days of carburetors and MFI, sure I guess they made some sense. But today, adaptive sequential electronic fuel injection with closed-loop lambda control makes combustion so precise, there's very little problem with running rich (particulates, carbon monoxide) or lean (oxides of nitrogen).

In fact, they could probably clean up the emissions a bit more simply by integrating wideband lambda control into OEM applications...not only could the engines theoretically run a bit cleaner in closed loop, but they might also be able to reduce or eliminate the time spent running in open loop mode, due to their faster response. It would be cheaper, lighter, and more efficient than catalysts...which is apparently why government regulators prefer cats

A lot of the time it REALLY seems like that's what Greenpeace wants

JDS968

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waj2KrKYTZo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD0Pv6yyGek

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3qXvDDhUpE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rKYjJXI3GA

It was really the automotive Holocaust. Senseless murder en masse by the order of an evil man who took over a nation by riding a wave of mindless enthusiasm and scapegoating those who were not responsible for the nation's problems. I'm not saying Obama is Hitler, I'm just saying that a StrekStrekStrekStrekton of good cars had to die for our sins.

odurandina

europe had hitler... i'm convinced that millions of people will die because of this evil fool.

rgs944

"Hitler killed jews and Obama kills cars". Never quite thought of it like that before but that is dead on. Do not want to make this a political page, but you would think if he really cares about poor people he would not have robbed people of so many cheap work and school cars. Sounds like all he cares about is corporate crooks to me.

JDS968

And Russians and Polacks and Gypsies and butt pirates and retards and cripples. He really was bad news...

Don't really want to get into Obama himself, but as for Cash for Clunkers specifically...yeah, any plan to improve an economy by destroying goods is...well...retarded. This plan StrekStrekStrekStreked over poor people, auto enthusiasts, auto mechanics, and taxpayers. You guys ever watch Gearz? Stacy David did a fairly good episode about Cash for Clunkers.

FRporscheman

odurandina, you said you had a bad cat, so you thought the best option was to remove it, but what about replacing the cat with a good one? Did you really just want to save a couple hundred bucks? Just because your car with no cat is better than such-and-such doesn't make it OK.

JDS, don't talk to me about crusades and old muscle cars. Obviously they pollute more than your 968 but nobody is talking about them so don't change the subject. If you don't do your part, you're equally responsible for the damage being caused.

I can't speak to what I think of classic car (pre-cat era) owners; it's irrelevant. Your car is not a classic. Why are you so offended, you have nothing to lose (maybe a little money if you need a new cat), while the whole world benefits from cleaner air. I was born without asthma and now I suffer chronically.

FRporscheman

Obama is not responsible for killing cars. He just offered an incentive to people who could not properly maintain their old cars to get rid of them. The owners of those cars gave them up for cash. Otherwise instead of "cash for clunkers" it would have been "mandatory retirement of clunkers". The only problem I had with that campaign was that instead of killing the cars, they should have contracted dealerships to tune them up and resell them. It would have put more Americans to work instead of boosting Prius sales.

959Lover

Nobody is comparing your previous cars vs current. WTF does a 6.2L Chevy have to do with a 968? They are different cars and are held to different standards. If your 968 pollutes more than someone elses and you are negligent about improving it, you're an idiot.

The fact of the matter is that you are refusing to realize that there are rules for your 968 to have a cat. If you can't deal, go drive a SEFI POS. Not my fault you chose a car that requires a cat by law.

Then have a properly maintained 968 or GTFO. If you can't afford a $200 cat, go ride a bicycle. Furthermore, FFS use proper punctuation; reading your posts is a task and takes more brain power than was put into it.

You just said it yourself: Driving cars that pollute results in the demise of said polluters. Don't pollute with your nice car and you won't be contributing to the onslaught of your car type.

JDS968

It isn't irrelevant at all. You're saying I'm an *** for polluting the air. But people driving around in catless carbureted cars create thousands of times as much pollutants per mile. So either you have to decry everybody driving a TR6 or a Challenger or a 600 Grosser as heinous, terrible criminals, or you will have to contradict your own argument.

Mmmm actually now that you mention it, the state of Florida says it's about to be. Barely more than a year to go.

Because it's none of your damn business how I configure my own car.

I'm sorry, was it the dealers' idea to purposely destroy engines in good working condition? They could have been kept in the cars they were already in, which could have been repaired and resold, or they could have been put into other cars needing new engines, or they could have been parted out to repair other engines. No, in fact the dealers did NOT come up with the idea of destroying goods in their possession, it was mandated by law. So okay, maybe Obama isn't directly responsible for killing cars, but only in the sense that he's responsible through Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.

He offered money that was not his to give to people whose cars were worth less than $3500, which included a hell of a lot of perfectly good vehicles in proper running condition, but were simply not worth a lot of cash due to the normal depreciation that comes with age.

Not in this country, comrade Lenin. We still have a wisp of property rights left.

That would have been nice, but it largely misses the point of the program. The more old, cheap cars on the road, the more of a buyer's market it is. Obama wanted a seller's market.

Nothing, and I didn't compare it. Pay closer attention, I was comparing a Chevy Suburban to a Fiat 500 to explain to Odurandina the difference between carbon dioxide emissions, and pollutant emissions.

The 968 DOES have SEFI, did you not know this?

I'm sorry...what?? How the hell did you draw THAT conclusion from what I wrote?

odurandina

who is this guy ??

in Massachusetts, shops replace old dead cats on old cars with new ones. on a few cars they install test pipes as requested, usually for what will likely be odd/non-daily driven cars anyway. these types of cars are usually of the variety that would be kept in very good tune, since they are likely to be "performance" oriented cars... but, there's no inspection for emissions in Massachusetts after 15 years. no visual inspection and no smog check. and what do the feds say ? quite frankly i could give a hoot. the overall % of these types of cars being daily driven on the new england roads or anywhere else, for that matter, past 15 years old has got to be a very small fraction of the total. it's powerplants and homes that are the big polluters, big coal plants, oil petro generating plants, and heating oil in people's homes -- not 15 year old, 4 cylinder P-cars in perfect tune.

Fox944

i wonder how many of you guys not running cats on your 968 did before and after dyno's. running a test pipe is hardly worth the air and/or noise pollution.

JDS968

...which guy?

Hell, I'd happily do it just to shave a bit of weight.

Also, I reject the entire concept of "noise pollution".