CasperS

Abbreviated version: What would I gain and what would I lose switching from my S2000 to a 964?

Long version: I’ve been daily driving (3.5 seasons) my S2000 since I bought it new back in 2007. It’s a fantastic car and it has never let me down and continues to be a thrill to drive. However, after having bought my fiancée a 997 C4S and having that kind of power available I’ve been thinking of possibly switching things up, and while the 997 is a great car I’ve got a soft spot for the classics and I’m thinking the 964 might be the right balance of modern and vintage. Maybe I’m wrong, maybe I should really be looking at the 3.2s?

My commute is 26 miles each way, starting on country roads and transitioning to highway and then interstate before hitting DC and the godforsaken-traffic-only-matched-in-its-stupidity-by-the-politics-of-this-place.

I’ve driven a well-used (neglected) 1990 964 cabriolet and it struck me as loud and a little sloppy compared to the Honda. Again, this wasn’t the best example. So while I can’t quite bring myself to give up the open top I was thinking a Targa might be the right balance of rigidity and quiet while still allowing for the top down feel.

So… What do you think is a 964 going to be the right car? What are the tradeoffs of going from the S2000 to an early 90’s Porsche as a daily driver?

Thanks for any and all of your thoughts.

Deserion

Just my opinion, but I don't think I'd want to daily a 964 in heavy traffic on a daily basis especially if you get into a lot of congestion. To me, the clutch isn't particularly suited for that. I commute in a Subaru Outback 3.6 (CVT, Eyesight) for what it's worth. For me, the 964 is an enjoyable weekender and a rare-drive-to-work-on-a-Friday kind of car.

The HVAC system on mine needs an entire overhaul, and the targa roof needs rebuilt. You'd have to factor that into the overall cost (depending on the condition of those two), as right now it's a bit loud on the highway due to the shrinking roof vinyl causing wind noise.

CasperS

Deserion,

Thanks for the reply. The clutch is a bit of a concern, but I haven't been able to give up the manual... I drove a 991.2 PDK and while it is a true miracle of modern engineering, I felt like I was missing out on the manual, even in traffic.

Not to push others for more info, but do you think the 964 clutch is any firmer than any other manual? The one I drove seemed to have a very long stroke to it, but the pressure required felt normal-ish.

I'd like to see if I can pick up a good example for $40-50k with the expectation that an additional $10k will likely go to repairs/modifications in the first year or two. Do you think that budget would allow for a reliable every-day sort of car?

canuck964

Agree with Deserion.

I have owned my 964 for over 10 years and would not consider using it as my daily driver.

To me the clutch is heavier than other manuals that I have driven. I also feel the initial torque from the flat six is lower so you have to be more precise than with other cars. I am comparing this to a Nissan 350Z and Subaru WRX.

My only experience with the S2000 is from around 2010 when I was looking to buy one and test drove a few of them. The clutch and manual felt really good and it took a while to get used to those high revs.

Being a Honda the maintenance and reliability will be a lot better.

CasperS

Well damn... And thanks for the feedback! This is precisely the kind of advice I am looking for.

I'm not sure I can quite cross the 964 off my list just yet, I'll have to drive a few more, but perhaps I should expand my search to other cars.

canuck964

I really liked the S2000. I ended up buying the 350Z Cab because I couldn't find a good S2000 at the time and a low KM 350Z was available for a very good price.

I think the S2000 is a better true sports car compared to the 350Z.

GoatFarmer

Clutch feel is relative. I own a 997.1 GT3, 964 and a Honda Fit. The GT3 is a super heavy. The 964 is mild in comparison and the Fit is like jello. I wouldn't want to daily drive the 964 though. Like others have said, you need to be precise with the clutch and that would be tiring in traffic.

Earlydays

...I guess it is all relative. I commuted in my 964 for two years in San Francisco and then 2 years in Dallas (until I started to work from home) and I found the clutch to be fine and the AC in Dallas adequate. I looked forward to getting into the 964 and driving it everyday.

CasperS

I have to say, the reason I have kept the S2000 this long is I just haven't found another car that I want to drive more.

When we got the 997, I was actually surprised how much I liked it and started to put more thought into getting a Porsche, but another 997 seems a little funny (though not out of the question), the Cayman would feel like a downgrade, and while the older cars do come with their quirks, there is something really special about them and they are simple enough to wrench on without getting a laptop out.

CasperS

I laughed a little bit when I read the jello comment. Sometime last year I drove a friends Fit, I nearly put my foot and clutch pedal right through the firewall. That has to be the lightest clutch I've ever experienced.

I think I'm just going to need to see if I can get some seat time in another 964 just to see if I can get a better feel for the clutch.

Do you know if the older 3.2's have similarly finicky clutches?

Nylasurf

You stated that you drove a 964 convertible and thought that it was a bit loud and the condition was a bit rough. I think between that and your statement above you have a pretty firm grasp of what you like to drive and expect as far as feel and driving experience.

Daily driving a 964 isn't an issue and it is extremely reliable, but does need more routine maintenance than a S2000 as it is a decade older car and aircooled cars require more oil, etc. The Targa will not have much more rigidity than the convertible you drove as the targa hoop doesn't add that much structure. (I own a targa and love it and am happy with the car but will say a coupe is more rigid).

The only way you can get a good feel is to drive in a couple more 964s and decide if you like the way it moves, feels, sounds compared to your current car. There are a number of members here in the VA/MD/DC area that I am sure will meet up with you for some drives in order for you to make a more informed decision...but in the end driving a 25yr old air cooled porsche daily is much more of an emotive decision than a rational one (IMHO).

CasperS

That is really the meat of the issue isn't it. Do the pros of driving a 964 (any sports car) outweigh the drawbacks of a more demanding (PITA) driving experience? Sadly, that is likely a sliding scale we all see differently, still I am grateful for the responses, it at least gives me an idea of what to look for as I try to find the right car.

GoKart

I have owned a number of sports cars and sporting cars, from VW to Mercedes to BMW to Porsche and Honda. I bought my 964 C2 with 70k miles on it in 2010. I bought an 05 S2000 in 2012 with 11k miles on it. Absolutely mint. I sold the S2000 about 8 months later because I found it uninvolving, it lacked steering feel, and didn't feel "special" to me. I still have the 964 and no regrets. How you use it is up to you - I occasionally drive mine to work but I don't deal with much stop n go. To me, an air cooled 911 has so much more drama to it. It is an experience to drive, especially when you have the car for a while and you really get to know it. The S2000 was an appliance by comparison. I have also had an E30 M3 since 2007, and I still own that car. Comparable to an S2000 in terms of lighter weight, high revving 4 cylinder etc, but I liked it much better than the S2000 also.

CasperS

I think you hit the nail on the head.... The rational decision would be to pick up a Fit, but unless I could have a GT3 like GoatFarmer I think it'd be more than I could handle.

The maintenance aspect is something I've thought about, but from what I've read, as long as the cars regular maintenance are tended to, they don't leave people on the side of the road.

My fiancee is going to try her had at auto-crossing at a PCA event this spring, so perhaps I'll be able to do some more hands on research there if not before at one of the many PCA events before then. I have to say, the P-Car community really is one of the draws to getting another one, you guys are great.

Deserion

I think the pre-964s (G-models and earlier) had a cable-actuated clutch, but I may be wrong on that.