Dr Mitch

Anyone use a ceramic coating on their 964 (after proper detailing, etc). Been thinking about getting a longer-term protective coating on the old girl.

Any experience?

TIA.

PhatPhlatSix

Had a Ceramic coating on another non-Porsche car - it really does bring out the shine! The scratch resistance is a little better than paint alone. If you are worried about paint chips and scratches, go for a film such as Xpel.

dsan

I had CQuartz on when the car was black. It did really make the paint "pop". As far as protection goes, it seemed to protect well for very light scratches/hazing but I really wouldn't call it a "protection". I got it more for the lazy person in me, not having to wax the car or use other types of sealant (besides the reload every once in a while). Now that I had the car repainted though, I opted for a full front clear film for better chip protection. Any minor scratches "heal" but it doesn't have the same "pop" as CQuartz.

Dr Mitch

Thanks for the replies.

I was thinking about the Ceramic more for the lazy aspect for sure. I like the idea of not having to wax or put a 1-3 year coating on it - figured for a bit more will have a longer lasting finish. I used to love detailing the car, but that was when I had time for that luxury - I can't get past doing a quarter panel before I'm pulled away to do husband / fatherly duties.

Figured if the car is detailed right and then covered, maintains the finish, but yeah, I'm not going to fool myself into believing it will prevent stone chips or anything.

eddieb4

I had my black 964 paint professionally detailed (paint had tons of swirls) and then had it completely cleared with suntek ... I love it. Makes a black car not so bad to own. Took it to Road America PCA weekend over Labor Day and I had to tell people that it was covered in protective film. Parked it under a tree Saturday night and birds bombed it. Used Griot products to "wash it" without water in about ten minutes ... Would never do that without the film.

911porschefan

I had mine with Artic Coating, local to you in Toronto, his name is John from Detail N Plasti. I also have a GP white 964, car looks great and looks glossy, but white does not "pop" like other colours.

bweSteve

Does anyone know whether you can ever go back, once you've put a CeramicPro type sealant on a single stage solvent paint (like our early 1990's paint)?

When I say "go back", here's my line of thought..... I have heard that these sealants do just that, they plug up the pores of the paint. So if it seals the paint up tight,... can you EVER go back to polishing?
Does it ever wear off? Can you polish it off if you wanted to?

just wondering

PolishedDetail

Yes, you can remove the coating from your paint if you wanted to. I am a Ceramic Pro installer in Los Angeles California. We have coated hundreds of cars from new exotics, daily drivers to classic originals with single stage paint. The number of layers applied to the paint will have an effect on the amount of effort to polish it off. It really is a hard coating. It will take a professional to properly remove it from the finish. I have had cars we have coated with a ceramic pro gold package (5 layers total) come back from body shops with buffer marks in the coating. But, it was not removed. So, you have to know what you're doing to properly remove it from your paint.

I hope that helps

bweSteve

Thanks PolishedDetail. Very well constructed answer. I appreciate that.

I have an additional question...

But first some background....

I had a 3 stage paint correction done 1.5 yrs ago for the first time in my cars life. The car was pretty dull & oxidized from 25 yrs of life. The last stage of the correction was w/ pure Carnauba. We did paint depth readings all around the entire car before,.. & then again after. I was VERY happy with the results. It was like new paint. And the depth readings were still very healthy afterwards too. .... But now what to do.

After 1.5 yrs, I can already tell that the shine is not fully 100% like it was immediately after the 3-stage PC. So I feel like it is already starting that process all over again (must be my paranoia right?,... cuz it's only been a very short period of time compared to the first 25 yrs!). I've probably only washed the car half-dozen times in that 1.5 yrs,.. and so earlier this summer I noticed several small tiny spots on the front of the hood. This is original 1991 paint. It almost feels like these teeny-tiny spots look like super small fish eye's (like when you paint over oil stained metal),.. so my thought is that maybe the paint had shrunk ever so slightly in that spot & caused a super small little fish eye.. Could the paint have constricted enough to caused this? ... or is it just plain ol road rash. I may never know. SO, I decided to fix them with a little wood toothpick & some single stage paint mixed by a specialty shop who put the Paint Camera on my hood & built a formula to match exactly... (since the Indischot Guards Red from Porsche was a tad too bright & did not match. I understand that after years of UV exposure (mine as 78k miles), that some of the yellows & purples in that original formula start to fade out,... so the Guards red actually starts to turn a shade darker). Anyway, I applied another coat of Carnauba. It certainly freshened it up.
But I worry that after applying a CeramicPro type sealant, some more of those tiny fish eye's could possibly show up again.

So knowing that natural oxidation continues to occur (even when my car sits inside under a nice soft cover 95% of the time),.... My question is this: ...

Would the CeramicPro sealant prevent paint shrinkage / drying-out over time?

I ask this, because I have also heard people say that our single stage solvent paints also need to breath,.. and that sealants do not allow that.

TIA for opinions. I want to hear all of them.
=Steve

PolishedDetail

Hey Steve,

So, this is a tough one to diagnose or give a solid answer on. Without seeing the paint in person, it's always like shooting in the dark to give educated and hopefully correct advice. That being said... I'm going to give it a shot haha.

Here it goes:

The 25 year old original single stage was corrected to remove oxidation, scratches and general build up of 25 years of ownership. This correction took place 1.5 years ago and is now starting to show signs of revealing the same issues that originally took 25 years to acquire. It was only washed about a half dozen times and garage kept during this time after correction was performed.

I believe it's highly possible it may not have been properly "corrected". Here's why:

Paint correction is the new term for every detailer (regardless of skill set or experience) to throw around to justify charging people a higher price for a simple polish and wax. The average person doesn't understand what paint correction really involves or how to check and see if you've been had by a detailer. There are lots of products on the market specifically made to skip proper steps and still achieve the look of properly corrected paint. Until all the silicone fillers, and oils release from the paints finish after a handful of washes.

I advise people to do the solvent test on your vehicle after it has been corrected. Use a product like Prep-All to wipe down a panel after you get the car back. If the panel changes colors or reveals scratches, you should get your money back or at the very least, ask a lot of questions.

Carnauba wax applied to a single stage paint job is going to accomplish a couple things: great color and gloss (the oils in the wax give great gloss and color). The second one is minimal protection for about 3-6 months if kept in the garage. A half dozen washes probably stripped most of the silicone fillers and removed the wax that was providing deep color to the single stage paint.

Single stage paints will oxidize very quickly due to the porous nature of the paint. But, usually not that quickly after a correction. The pin holes are hard to diagnose without seeing the car. They could be "crows feet" starting where the paint is becoming thin or releasing from the primer. It shouldn't be solvent pop after this many years as the paint has fully out gassed and cured long long ago.

Ceramic Pro coating is going to create a barrier over your single stage against UV and harsh elements like clear coat would. Whether you apply wax, sealant or ceramic coating you will be filling the pores of the paint. Sealants and all other protective coatings are made to create a seal on the paint against elements. Ceramic coatings are engineered to get in to the valleys of the paint and create a tougher, thicker and longer lasting barrier than a conventional wax or sealant. They will not have a negative effect on your single stage paint. But, your single stage will absorb more of the product before it starts layering compared to a b/c paint job.

Adding layers of protection from a Ceramic pro coating will slow down any aging process from the sun and other things that would impact the exposed area (top of paint). But, if there is an underlying issue from the bottom of the paint it would not have any effect to help slow that process.

My guess is that your paint is probably a perfect candidate for a proper correction and coating. It will ease your maintenance and anxiety of owning a vehicle with single stage paint. I have personally corrected and coated many single stage vehicles including porsches with great results. So, I feel pretty confident in saying that it's worth meeting with a quality shop and Ceramic Pro installer for a diagnosis and quote.

Worst case, you lose 30 minutes out of your day haha

I hope this helped. I tried not to ramble on too much 😉

bweSteve

Thanks again PD, for spending so much time writing that all out. I think it will not only help me, but others too for sure.

So for me, I was actually present onsite for all three stages performed on the car. I know the owner. I never left their shop. For the first stage, they first used Wolfgang Concours Series Swirl Remover. The 2nd stage was Menzerna SF Superior Polish, and the last stage was Carnauba.

I must admit though, part of my problem in committing to have a 3-stage performed in the first place, was my lack of comparison knowledge on ALL the products available out there. It is staggering the number of products that all the detailers use, and the mis-info across the board. I've heard that many of these are all derived from the same chemical companies, but are private labeled for each marketing & distribution firm (not wanting a tangent, that is probably a WHOLE nother discussion! Lol). Be that as it may,... I just decided to trust "them", and let them choose & use the products they are most familiar with.

That being said, I do not know if those products that were used (listed above) fall into a category you mention above. I never performed a "solvent" test as you described.

Here is a shot of the car just as they finished the last stage. Oh,... & I can also say that we were all just a tad concerned when we saw how much color came off on the pad during stage 1. But we immediately did depth tests at that point, and that made us much more comfortable with continuing.

Hey Dr Mitch - Hopefully you do not think I hijacked your thread!! I am hoping some of this helps you too. We do want to make sure our paint is the BEST it can be before we have a Ceramic type sealant applied.
So THANKS for starting this post!!!

Anyway, here's a look...
.... (oh, & the car has won several 1st in Class (last yr it was up against 12 others in the 964 / 993 Class), and a Best in Show (out of 40) in the "Full" divisions at PCA Concours events in the last 2 yrs. It's in decent shape).
Thnx,
=Steve

Dr Mitch

Steve, no worries at all about highjacking, this info is exactly what I was looking for too. I'd love to do a good paint correction, get rid of all of the swirls and scratches. If I'm going to invest that much into it, I'd want to preserve it as along as possible with a ceramic coating of some sort..
Of to an Xpel frot protection for rock chips instead...
Decisions.

LPMM

Or you could do both. If going for a clear bra, look into Suntek instead of Xpel.

bweSteve

Well guys, I thought I would report back in again on this subject...

After many MORE months of deliberating, investigating what others have done (locally), taking into account the info PolishedDetail gave here above, & so much more,... I finally went ahead & pulled the trigger.

I was actually surprised to read that Porsche had been putting clear coat paint on top of metallic colors way back since the 80's. I was not aware of that. And then obviously surprised that they were NOT putting clear coats on the solid colors (including my Guards Red) even into the 90's.

Be that as it may, my single stage solvent based paint (non-clear-coat) was looking very good this past year with my original 3-stage correction (1.5 yrs ago) & upkeep of Carnauba,... but alas I could still tell that there was oxidation occurring.... and to be honest I reeeeally just wanted to STOP that oxidation over the many more years I am going to continue ownership. So that was my main goal.

I went with CeramicPro 9H. 4 coats. Plus all the rest of the products they sell were applied to everything else on the car (both inside & outside barrels of my RH36 rims,.. 9H on my Calipers too - which were rebuilt & powder-coated 1.5 yrs ago,.. 2 coats of the "glass" product on my windshield & windows, interior leather conditioner & carpet "Textile" product), and then the CeramicPro "Light" hydrophobic top coat over top of the 9H.

WOW. I am so pleased. Mostly that my paint is now "locked in". No more future oxidation.
... and to see the water just roll off everything is amazing.

And another advantage that I did not really think about ahead of time, was how 4 coats of the 9H really leveled out the paint on my front hood. After 70k miles & 26 yrs, the very front of the hood had kindof a deep-pore look to it. Over the years I've been very diligent in taking a wooden tooth pick & the custom mixed guards red touch up paint (mixed from paint camera picture formulas averaged together), and making sure all those little nics were filled in properly. But even with that extra care, the front of the hood still had that porous look to it. Uniform,... but porous. And that has bugged me for a long time. BUT, I must say that the 9H really leveled all that out. Now it actually looks like it has a clear coat on it. So pleased.

So in the end, I am very happy I went ahead with this. The car has really taken yet another leap of improvement. AND I can still say with confidence that it is a "All Original Paint" car. Now preserved.

Oh & btw, prior to the 9H application, we put a 2ft test strip of XPEL Ultimate on the hood,... and it was easy to see all the ups & downs imperfections. And now did another test strip AFTER the 4 coats of 9H, and WhoooaLa!! Most all of those little air bubbles that formed in the crevices between the film & paint were gone. So sometime in the future, I may make the decision to put some film on the front bumper & hood,... so I can KEEP driving this beast.

=Steve

bweSteve

UPDATE:

1.5 yrs now on my CeramicPro Gold package (every inch of the car was treated with every product they sell)... and also had a "checkup" performed on the car at the one year anniversary. Back then I was clearly very worried about ceramic treatment on all-original single stage solvent paint from the early 90's,... but now I am completely confident.

Also happy to report that the 28 year old paint is in the BEST shape it's been in decades. SO PLEASED with the results. Even took a 3rd place down at Amelia Island Werks reunion last year right after the initial treatment of CeramicPro (March 2017).

Since last year,.. my wife & I have continued to DRIVE the car EVEN MORE. So we did a 4 day PCA Treffen in Asheville NC last Sept, and have continued through this winter / Spring. Hitting a West Virginia tour in a couple weeks too. Anyway, since we've been driving it so much, I went ahead and had XPEL Ultimate put on the entire front clip. Came out good, and now feel even more protected. PLUS, I felt much more confident putting film on the paint KNOWING that I had the paint underneath already locked down with the ceramic, especially for this vintage paint (non-metallic, therefore non-clear-coated from factory).

So NOW, my next step,... is to put on some sort of windshield film / armor / clearplex / bray group,.... "something" to protect that glass surface since it currently only has the CeramicPro Glass product on it.
.... I'm currently searching threads here on our 964 forum to see what others have done.

Bottom line. TOTALLY stoked about the results.
=Steve