GMK

Hi,

I have a black '91 C2. I have noticed the last couple of drives that the 1st gear has become difficult to engage (for instance from a stand still waiting for green light). The problem has earlier been intermittent, I had a long cruise yesterday without problems, although 1st and 2nd were more sticky than normal.

Today, under spirited driving, I noticed that the 2nd gear was also becoming difficult, and the rest of the gears followed the same pattern as the car warmed up. It progressively got worse, to the point where the car became almost undriveable. I was forced to turn off the ignition, force it into second gear (first was impossible) and start from second gear. I limped home with the following observations:

- New brake fluid last year (less than 8000 km). I double checked with the workshop and verified that they bleed the clutch as part of the brake fluid change
- Gear change started out as sticky in 1st and 2nd, now all were problematic.
- The first 0.5 to 1.5 inch of clutch pedal travel seems completely loose, as in there's no actuation of the clutch during the first inch of clutch pedal travel
- The gear change is easier, but still sticky, when the ignition is off
- The car doesn't disengage until the pedal is pressed REALLY hard to the floor, meaning that when coasting into a traffic light and wanting to engage the clutch to roll to a standstill, the car doesn't start rolling until you're literally standing on the clutch pedal
- Rev matching extensively was the only way to make down shifting possible

All tips and opinions are appreciated!!

/GMK

kkswow12

well i'm sub''d here, interested too

Rocket Rob

I would check your clutch pedal roll pin. My bet is that yours is in the process of failing. My car recently had a problem as I was driving to work, sitting at a traffic light, the pedal went crunch and the pedal went to the floor. I limped the car home by turning off the ignition at stops. At home, I discovered that the roll pin was partially backed out of position. I tapped it back in and the car was back to normal..... Or so I hoped.....This past week, I was noticing that my pedal began to engage lower and lower. I reinspected it again on Saturday. The roll pin was backing out again. We pulled the pedal cluster and pulled the roll pin. It was broken in two. We installed a new one and its back to normal.

If this is not it, I would suspect you have a hydraulic issue.

GMK

Rocket Rob, thanks for the quick response. I'll check the roll pin, and keep my fingers crossed that it is the cause of my problems.

It actually got so bad that I think I may need to tow the car to a workshop for repair if it ends up being something more serious.

I initially thought it might have been caused by air in the clutch hydraulic system, as it seemed to get worse as the car warmed up. The logic being that while cold, the air bubbles would still be small, but as the system heated up, the air bubbles expanded thus causing a faulty clutch. I would assume a proper bleed would be necessary after the gearbox was separated from the engine?

Rocket Rob

Can you assume, the clutch was bled after the engine/tranny was separated? No. The way I do it, I remove the clutch slave from the tranny and leave the slave hang by its hydraulic line. You can connect the slave when you reinstall the engine/tranny. No need to bleed.

LM964

Exactly the same issue a few years back (difficult to zero 1st selection when warm). Bled/flushed completely the tranny slave cylinder. After @ 1+ litre of fluid I went from the grim thick black to nice and clear. Clutch all fine following this.

Not saying this is your cause, but if anything mechanically wrong with gear selection then would have thought it would have affected more than just 1st gear selection (ignoring a rare gearbox failure or issue).

GMK

LM964, thanks for the input.

I initially had the same conclusion, but after yesterday's drive I'm unsure as ALL gears eventually got difficult (down shifts were more difficult than up).

Trying to get the roll pin checked today, new pin and bushings are already ordered. Fingers crossed!

LM964

Interesting... especially as it's the lower gears progressively getting worse (more than the higher gears or reverse?). If the clutch pedal, which travels a single path, then it would be more easier to investigate if the behaviour was consistent for all or any gear selection attempts. Looking forward to knowing the root cause and fix...

jevvy964

Good luck with he roll pin, hope its that!

You would think so but when my roll pin failed it was much more apparent in the lower gears and less so on the move in higher gears

GMK

Hi all,

So I finally got the pedal assy out. Took me a few hours, but considering this is the first time I do any work on my car myself (any car for that matter), it all went OK I guess.

I'm slightly reluctant to start prying out the roll pin as it seems pretty well fixed to the clutch pedal "axel", if that makes sense. I've seached rennlist and found pictures of exactly what I'm looking for, but would appreciate a verification from the gurus here that I'm actually thinking about the correct part, see picture below.

I also uploaded some videos on youtube, that gives a small representation of the clutch pedal behaviour. The last one shows the travel of the clutch after the assy is out of the car. Not the best videos, but you can clearly see that there is "play" in the pedal in the last section of the video.


All from now, I'll keep you posted on the progress.

davidwilson11

I had the exact same problem, turned out after all the usual stuff! Changed roll pin, changed bushes, changed fluid and the slave, swapped out the slave line. Nothing it was getting worse.

I changed the flywheel, clutch and all the parts in there. Sorted !

I had something breakdown in the fork and it gradually moved further in which gave me the same issues you are explaining.

GMK

Thanks for the input, David. Hopefully I'm not as unlucky as you were, just spent a leg and a kidney for a top end rebuild this winter, my porsche bank account is empty for at least another year.

I did find a sheared roll pin today and therefore hope a new one will sort my issues.

tbennett017

Ockham's Razor fellas.... I believe it's the clutch hydraulics failing progressively from the heat. Check the roll pin - easy to do visually, then I'd do a static test of the clutch slave. I bet you'll find a failing slave or master.

davidwilson11

If its the roll pin you are in luck. Easy swap out and should notice the difference.
Keep us updated.

Dr Mitch

Yes, please keep us updated.

Birds of a feather...
My 90 C4 started to have notchy shifting only in first gear - progressed throughout the day to becoming VERY difficult to get into first and sometimes reverse.
Once underway, shifts are smooth and normal - no noise, clunking noted.
PO replaced the roll pin about two and half years ago just before I purchased the car.

Not sure when fluid was last changed - hopefully nothing serious as clutch was done about 3 years ago and I've been pretty easy on it.

Will let you know what they fin and report back.