cobalt

I have been saying for years that the 964 will one day be worth more than a comparable 993 but I was always laughed at. When I walked away from the torsion bar cars and got into the 964's I found that they were scoffed and laughed at by most 993 owners. At the time the 993TT was around 40% more expensive than a comparable 964 turbo 3.6 and the 993C2S/C4S was worth more than a 3.3L turbo 964. On average a decent 964 would cost between $16 and $25k while a comparable 993 would run you upwards of $45k.

I spent premium $$ in 2007 for my 964 C2 just before the market crash but it was a '93 with only 40k miles on it and now that seems like a wise choice. The car has been reliable and a pleasure to drive and now with only 60k miles.

Yes there are high mileage 964's out there for high 20's still but I would not touch most of them. When a nice example of a 964 comes along the prices appear to be rivaling the 993's and the high mileage 993's seem to be equal to the 964's. Are we at that pivotal point when the 964 deserves the recognition it deserves and is stealing the thunder from the 993?

Honestly they are all great cars and it is up to the buyer or seller to set the market. Without a doubt any rare color or exceptionally low mileage example of either will be outlandishly priced but now we are seeing 94 turbos in the $250k-$300k+ range while comparable 993TT's are trailing by over 6 figures and even the for sale section of rennlist shows limited numbers of 964's but nice ones asking as much as lower mileage 993's. I have seen some nice low mileage sub 60k mile 964's sell well into the $60k range privately and we all know how crazy the RSA market has gone. Will we be seeing the 993's catch up again or will the 964 leave the 993 behind?

https://rennlist.com/forums/marketplace/cars/search/

BHCfarkas

Absolutely not. 993 will be THE last of the air cooled, and will also continue to increase in value.

breljohn

I'm with Farkas. I think most of the appeal is about being THE last air cooled.

cobalt

So then why have they completely stalled and have if anything seen a complete stagnation in value while the 964 is on a steady rise? I find most talk about air cooled 911's seem to omit the 993 from the conversation due to its change in looks. The 964 is the last of the original lines of the 911 and the last of the true sports car feel the 993 is so much more of a GT car than the 964.

u7t2p7

Buyers set the market...not sellers. The price appreciation for 964's are largely driven by the supply side, given how few there are to be had. Also, different series appreciate faster at different times. The 964 prices were suppressed for a long time due to negative reviews across the board (from Porsche themselves to certain publications, etc.). I own both...so I consider myself unbiased

provoste

I think they'll both remain highly valued. Think about it like the SWB (65-68) and the long-hoods (69-73). They are both viewed as the "originals", and both are highly valued.

I think the 964 and 993's will remain highly valued as they are both the "modern" air cooled cars, with low production models commanding ridiculous premiums for both 964/993.

Agreed though, I think a comparably equipt/mileage/condition 993 will likely continue to command more $ than a 964 for the foreseeable future.

cobalt

I somewhat agree.

Although the sellers are setting the prices that the buyers seem to be accepting. So if I told you 5 years ago a 964 turbo 3.6 would fetch $330k would you have believed me?

I agree they appreciate at different rates but all the early 911's are increasing at far greater rate then the 993. I can buy a 95 C4 for the same price and condition today that my good friend sold his for back in 2005. You can't say that about the 964. If the age of the air cooled has come then I would have expected the 993 to be worth more today.

cobalt

But that is not how the current market is reacting from what I have been observing. Currently I have seen 60k mile 993's in the $53k range I have people lined up to buy my 60k 964 offering me considerably more even with some paint work. I don't plan on selling.

BHCfarkas

Let me ask you this, why would you buy a 40-50k dollar 993 when you could get a 964 for a fraction of the price, a year or two ago? Of course people are going to jump on a cheaper air cooled Porsche, regardless of looks. Granted, you're right the prices are being driven up, but 964s are generally cheaper to purchase, and the value is going up. The 993 bandwagon won't start until people realize 964s are getting expensive and you can buy a newer, nicer air cooled 993 for just a hair more.

fenixv8

I dont see the 993 losing value. It will still increase. I believe the combination of "old 911 look" combined with second last of the air cooled engines has helped it become so popular. Supply and demand. No one is going to go back in time and make more examples of these car. Supply will be less than the demand I think for the 964 and the 993.

Is the opposite true for the 996? combination of being ugly and possibly a lot of them made? Im not sure of the numbers of the 996.

breljohn

I also believe that the buyers are not exactly the same.
I think that up until recently, the 964 was an "entry level" classic porsche.
You saw a lot of younger guys with lower budgets (I am one of them) wanting a 911.
The 993 owners I met were a different crowd let's say (not bashing, just saying).

That being said, if price was not a consideration I'd still take the 964 over the 993 due to the way it looks and drives.

breljohn

I think 996 will bottom at some point.
I just passed on a great turbo for 30k CAD. Think about it, it's Golf GTI price...

cobalt

I guess the question is what one considers Nicer. I had the option of jumping into the 993 instead of the 964 and I would take a 964 hands down every day of the week. If I wanted my sports car to be more of a GT I would take my 928GTS over one. IMO the 964 is the ultimate air cooled 911. I prefer the looks the feel and the overall interaction. What makes a 993 nicer? Looks are subjective. The 6 speed box offers little over the 5 speed. The varioram is a nice touch but my C2 has more HP than a varioram 993 and it is far harder to increase the power of them.

They are both great cars one is not necessarily nicer than the other. If either is well sorted it is an exceptional ride if not they can drive like a truck. Under the skin there are a lot of similarities and although the 993 has some improvements that the 964 could use it is easily upgraded.

BTW I never said the 993 was loosing value I am sure it will increase but it would appear the 964 is appreciating at faster rate.

FlyinTomato

I think in today's aircooled market "nicer" is relative. It may be true years ago 993 is a nicer aircooled car, much nicer car. Perhaps "nicer" as more comfortable or more refined? That doesn't apply to many buyers that are looking at these cars nowadays.

Many now agree that 964 is a nicer car because it's the last true 911, and the whole classic driving experience with somewhat usable modern feature.

breljohn

Agreed on your last point Cobalt, the spread is tightening