964 to 997 and back?
10-17-2014, 04:42 PM
#1
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964 to 997 and back?
Have had my '92 964 for 9 years and have really enjoyed it. Great, reliable and fun car. Have used it at the track and have the typical upgrades; cat-bypass, PSS10s, seats. Everything else, including the engine and brakes are stock. While I can hang with the new cars in the turns, she just does not have the horses or torque of the new cars. I took a ride in a 997 on the track and the new cars are faster and have much better brakes. I did not drive it, so I do not know if it is as "engaging" as my car. I do enjoy learning to drive a slower car fast, but 22 year old technology is making it increasingly more difficult to "keep up".
Has anyone on the board gone on to a 997, then decided it was the wrong move and gone back to the 964? Maybe you can save me some time, energy, effort and money! Thanks, MWN
Has anyone on the board gone on to a 997, then decided it was the wrong move and gone back to the 964? Maybe you can save me some time, energy, effort and money! Thanks, MWN
10-17-2014, 06:22 PM
#3
Pro
I have driven (but not owned) 997s and 991s, C2s and C4s all fantastic cars, but they just don't have the soul of the 964 and I believe it's not all about out right speed... I wouldn't mind owning one as well as the 964 though 
10-17-2014, 07:43 PM
#4
Not trying to start a flame war for sure.
My father in law has a 2009 997.2 and we compare it to my 964 fairly often. It is a gas to drive--quick, powerful, and controlled by a lot of nannies to keep you safe. You can turn them off of course. He's owned an 911E, SC, and now the 997. My car fills in the gap for his perspective. I repeatedly hear how much he likes the 964. ABS and airbags to keep you safe, but otherwise simple and true to the origins of the 911.
I prefer my 964 which still has the heart of an analog sports car that depends on the driver, whereas, in my opinion, the modern 911 has generally evolved into a fast, luxury car with all the trappings therein.
Of course, each person is probably looking for something different out of the car and will ultimately have to decide for themselves what they are after.
My father in law has a 2009 997.2 and we compare it to my 964 fairly often. It is a gas to drive--quick, powerful, and controlled by a lot of nannies to keep you safe. You can turn them off of course. He's owned an 911E, SC, and now the 997. My car fills in the gap for his perspective. I repeatedly hear how much he likes the 964. ABS and airbags to keep you safe, but otherwise simple and true to the origins of the 911.
I prefer my 964 which still has the heart of an analog sports car that depends on the driver, whereas, in my opinion, the modern 911 has generally evolved into a fast, luxury car with all the trappings therein.
Of course, each person is probably looking for something different out of the car and will ultimately have to decide for themselves what they are after.
10-17-2014, 08:32 PM
#5
I've had an '07 997 C2S for a couple of years now, and recently purchased a '90 964 C2. They are very different driving experiences and both are rewarding in their own way.
The 997 does a better job at the "basic car" stuff: creature comforts, fit and finish, etc. The 997 is much quicker and has enormously capable brakes. It is also highly competent at the track, and in fact really needs to be on the track for the owner/driver to understand what these cars are all about. Hopefully every Porsche 911 owner knows they have a special car, but it's the track experience where the car truly reveals itself.
The 964 on the other hand exudes quirky personality. It feels much smaller and lighter, it smells like all the things it's made of, the connection to it feels more intimate, and the power is such that you can use most of it on the street without quickly being on the wrong side of the law.
If I had to sell one of them tomorrow, I'm not sure which I'd choose. As to the OP's original question, I think if my primary objective was to move on to a different kind of track experience I'd go with a 997. Because its limits are higher all the way around, it is also a very engaging track experience, but possibly in a different way. I'm always impressed by how effectively the really good momentum car drivers get through the corners and that must be tons of fun too.
The 997 does a better job at the "basic car" stuff: creature comforts, fit and finish, etc. The 997 is much quicker and has enormously capable brakes. It is also highly competent at the track, and in fact really needs to be on the track for the owner/driver to understand what these cars are all about. Hopefully every Porsche 911 owner knows they have a special car, but it's the track experience where the car truly reveals itself.
The 964 on the other hand exudes quirky personality. It feels much smaller and lighter, it smells like all the things it's made of, the connection to it feels more intimate, and the power is such that you can use most of it on the street without quickly being on the wrong side of the law.
If I had to sell one of them tomorrow, I'm not sure which I'd choose. As to the OP's original question, I think if my primary objective was to move on to a different kind of track experience I'd go with a 997. Because its limits are higher all the way around, it is also a very engaging track experience, but possibly in a different way. I'm always impressed by how effectively the really good momentum car drivers get through the corners and that must be tons of fun too.
10-17-2014, 09:46 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
Good question... let me add my perspective, but first, what my experience with 911s has been.
I started years and years ago with a 911 C3. Scary driving experience to say the least as a 23 or 24 year old. Added, very briefly an SC to the garage (but I discount the car, since it was very brief). Then moved onto a 997.1 as a 28 year old. A plain Carrera, in the lightest trim I could live with.
Other Porsches I've driven for extended periods (and thus pushed, both on and off the track) are Cayman S, Cayman R, Boxster (all in 987 gen), 993 Carrera.
Lastly the list of Porsches driven for less than 2 days, but still a bit more than a normal test drive: 993 TT, 991 GT3, 996 C4, 997 GT2 RS.
And I'm forgetting the 4 door P cars.
After all of that, I still stick to the statement that the 964 I'm driving now is the best car I've owned.
It's simple why; it's just the most fun.
Compared to the 997 it isn't as fast, brakes are less, grip is less (on a grippy and dry track only; on the road the 964 C4 is superior in my environment)... but still not as much fun.
The 964 is a far more advanced car when looking at quality of materials. I really would like anybody to point out where the 997 is higher quality product. Both under the skin and visible, the 964 and 993 are the highest quality Porsches ever built and it shows (and still angers me why this quality is lacking in current Porsches current cars).
Looks wise, I think they are equals. The 997 is a gorgeous 911, just like the 964 and the original 901 shape.
All this being said, the only 997 that I think offers the fun factor of the 964 is the GT3 (in RS or base). Why? Because a good few friends have GT3 RS (some even the 4.0) that have also owned or driven 964s and 993s and they rate it very highly for driving experience. So unless you got for a GT3, I'm not sure you will feel happier at the end of the day.
If you can, try to hold on to both like I did.
It let's you decide. I kept the 964.
I started years and years ago with a 911 C3. Scary driving experience to say the least as a 23 or 24 year old. Added, very briefly an SC to the garage (but I discount the car, since it was very brief). Then moved onto a 997.1 as a 28 year old. A plain Carrera, in the lightest trim I could live with.
Other Porsches I've driven for extended periods (and thus pushed, both on and off the track) are Cayman S, Cayman R, Boxster (all in 987 gen), 993 Carrera.
Lastly the list of Porsches driven for less than 2 days, but still a bit more than a normal test drive: 993 TT, 991 GT3, 996 C4, 997 GT2 RS.
And I'm forgetting the 4 door P cars.
After all of that, I still stick to the statement that the 964 I'm driving now is the best car I've owned.
It's simple why; it's just the most fun.
Compared to the 997 it isn't as fast, brakes are less, grip is less (on a grippy and dry track only; on the road the 964 C4 is superior in my environment)... but still not as much fun.
The 964 is a far more advanced car when looking at quality of materials. I really would like anybody to point out where the 997 is higher quality product. Both under the skin and visible, the 964 and 993 are the highest quality Porsches ever built and it shows (and still angers me why this quality is lacking in current Porsches current cars).
Looks wise, I think they are equals. The 997 is a gorgeous 911, just like the 964 and the original 901 shape.
All this being said, the only 997 that I think offers the fun factor of the 964 is the GT3 (in RS or base). Why? Because a good few friends have GT3 RS (some even the 4.0) that have also owned or driven 964s and 993s and they rate it very highly for driving experience. So unless you got for a GT3, I'm not sure you will feel happier at the end of the day.
If you can, try to hold on to both like I did.
It let's you decide. I kept the 964.
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10-18-2014, 03:50 AM
#8
Three Wheelin'
My experience echos that of TideRace's even though its 991.
There is a guy that went from 964 to 997 and back on 911uk forum.
http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=970...er=asc&start=0
There is a guy that went from 964 to 997 and back on 911uk forum.
http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=970...er=asc&start=0
10-18-2014, 06:06 AM
#9
Instructor
My recent Porsche history is a follows:
2006 bought a 964
2009 Sold 964 and bought a 968
2011 Sold 968
2013 bought 997
2014 Sold 997 and bought a 964
I absolutely loved my 997, it was a highly capable car and I used it as my daily driver. I live in the Netherlands where high speed driving is almost impossible due to all the speed cameras. So the way to have fun with your Porsche is to go on the B roads. The problem I had with the 997 is that I loved driving it on the German autobahns. Then you could experience the power and speed, but driving it here in the Netherlands was dead boring. It always felt like it was not trying, It simply did what I asked....a little nonchalant I guess.
After nearly two years I wanted to go back to more basic motoring. My initial idea was a pre-impact bumper car, but for me they have become too expensive to have fun with. I then narrowed my list down to a '76 or '77 Carrera 3.0 or a 964 C4 (C4 cause I am a geek and love the idea of 4 wheel drive sports cars).
The first time I stepped back in a 964 I knew this was what I wanted. I took it for a drive and was smitten within 1km. Driving the 997 back home was down right boring, even though I was driving on the same roads.
Simply put, the 964 feels like it's trying where the 997 was like, is that all you've got?
2006 bought a 964
2009 Sold 964 and bought a 968
2011 Sold 968
2013 bought 997
2014 Sold 997 and bought a 964
I absolutely loved my 997, it was a highly capable car and I used it as my daily driver. I live in the Netherlands where high speed driving is almost impossible due to all the speed cameras. So the way to have fun with your Porsche is to go on the B roads. The problem I had with the 997 is that I loved driving it on the German autobahns. Then you could experience the power and speed, but driving it here in the Netherlands was dead boring. It always felt like it was not trying, It simply did what I asked....a little nonchalant I guess.
After nearly two years I wanted to go back to more basic motoring. My initial idea was a pre-impact bumper car, but for me they have become too expensive to have fun with. I then narrowed my list down to a '76 or '77 Carrera 3.0 or a 964 C4 (C4 cause I am a geek and love the idea of 4 wheel drive sports cars).
The first time I stepped back in a 964 I knew this was what I wanted. I took it for a drive and was smitten within 1km. Driving the 997 back home was down right boring, even though I was driving on the same roads.
Simply put, the 964 feels like it's trying where the 997 was like, is that all you've got?
10-18-2014, 04:00 PM
#12
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10-18-2014, 04:59 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
I have both...although I am yet to track the 964...I like them both in different ways. The 997 2S is really engaging on the track, very fast and you really feel the road. For example, I tried a 991 on the track and it was horrible.....very fast....but no connection to the road.
If the tires pressure is 2 psi low on the 997 2S you can tell. Whereas I drove the 964 around for 2 weeks with one tire 10 psi low and didn't know...albeit I need to change the springs.
If you start knocking on body panels you will notice right away that the 964 is built like a tank compared the 997.....and the systems are easy enough to fix on your own....so less p-tax! If you consistently track a 997 it will start to cost you a lot...if that is an issue.
I sometimes consider selling the 997 to buy a 964 turbo...but I don't think Porsche cars should be bought and sold...they are family....you just accumulate!
If the tires pressure is 2 psi low on the 997 2S you can tell. Whereas I drove the 964 around for 2 weeks with one tire 10 psi low and didn't know...albeit I need to change the springs.
If you start knocking on body panels you will notice right away that the 964 is built like a tank compared the 997.....and the systems are easy enough to fix on your own....so less p-tax! If you consistently track a 997 it will start to cost you a lot...if that is an issue.
I sometimes consider selling the 997 to buy a 964 turbo...but I don't think Porsche cars should be bought and sold...they are family....you just accumulate!
10-18-2014, 06:56 PM
#14
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I just purchased a 997.1tt and it is an absolutely amazing machine. I also have a '91 Cab C2. They are totally different machines so any comparisons is apple to oranges.
But when I walk into the garage, my first inclination is to take the 964 out. I think it's because you have to drive the 964 all of the time at all speeds. The TT is very sedate... until the boost is on.
But when I walk into the garage, my first inclination is to take the 964 out. I think it's because you have to drive the 964 all of the time at all speeds. The TT is very sedate... until the boost is on.
