Are you kidding?
10-23-2014, 01:47 PM
#61
Rennlist Member
"Yep, the 964 was generally considered to be a rather unattractive car so they didn't sell many. It boggles my mind that 964's are selling for more than 993's. What that tells me is that the collectors are now driving the market more than the enthusiasts. The latter almost always gravitate toward the 993. However the former will care more about rarity than driving experience.
Not trashing the 964 at all; they're decent cars. But they have long since been considered the red headed step child of the air cooled 911 family. Again, take a look at the sales figures. Also, recall that, until very recently, one could grab a 964 for super cheap compared to a 993 or even a 3.2."
Not trashing the 964 at all; they're decent cars. But they have long since been considered the red headed step child of the air cooled 911 family. Again, take a look at the sales figures. Also, recall that, until very recently, one could grab a 964 for super cheap compared to a 993 or even a 3.2."
... wanted a 964 because it's the old style that can be used as a daily driver. And it was the least expensive. I am "that guy"...always wanted one since I was a kid at the track...so when the time came, I went out and looked for one to buy.
My dad, car guy, said "go with a 993, much better car. Newer, problems had been worked out...la la la.
I said. No. I want a 964.
I called vintage porsche dealers. Richard Sloan practically told me I was an idiot. Said he "never buys 964s cuz they are garbage...
...Every dealer I spoke to at the time and the porsche/Audi specialist I used at the time told me the same. "964s are garbage, they break all the time. Lots of problems."
...My feeling has always been this. Anyone that has ever said "don't buy a 964. Buy a....(3.2 or a 993), simply has never owned a 964. End of story. Inside the community it's been clear as day. From the outside there was a lot of Mis-information that kept prices down. Seems like all of that is gone now and unfortunately prices are going up before I had a chance to buy every 964 available on the market...maybe that's a good thing...idk. All I know is I am happy when I drive mine. I drive it everyday. So everyday, I am happy. Not a bad way to be.
My dad, car guy, said "go with a 993, much better car. Newer, problems had been worked out...la la la.
I said. No. I want a 964.
I called vintage porsche dealers. Richard Sloan practically told me I was an idiot. Said he "never buys 964s cuz they are garbage...
...Every dealer I spoke to at the time and the porsche/Audi specialist I used at the time told me the same. "964s are garbage, they break all the time. Lots of problems."
...My feeling has always been this. Anyone that has ever said "don't buy a 964. Buy a....(3.2 or a 993), simply has never owned a 964. End of story. Inside the community it's been clear as day. From the outside there was a lot of Mis-information that kept prices down. Seems like all of that is gone now and unfortunately prices are going up before I had a chance to buy every 964 available on the market...maybe that's a good thing...idk. All I know is I am happy when I drive mine. I drive it everyday. So everyday, I am happy. Not a bad way to be.
...It was like talking to blind sheep...'no head gasket....so 'complex'...valve adjustments....'ugly'...
I came away thinking , 'I don't know WTF these guys are seeing in the 964 but all of it seems like delusional fears from yesteryear. After buying, for what seemed like $15000 less than I should have paid, my thoughts were confirmed. Glad I didn't listen.
I came away thinking , 'I don't know WTF these guys are seeing in the 964 but all of it seems like delusional fears from yesteryear. After buying, for what seemed like $15000 less than I should have paid, my thoughts were confirmed. Glad I didn't listen.
Now that's an endorsement!
993s in all conditions were flying off the dealer's lot. In some cases big money for ratty cars (especially the interiors)... The 964 that I purchased sat on their lot for months, so the dealer serviced everything so it was mint by the time I showed up (engine reseal, power steering, AC, brakes, new tires, etc.), but no one cared since is was a 964. Haha!
I wouldn't trade my 964 for a 993. Just a different look that doesn't do it for me. I'm certain the 993 is a rewarding car on it's own merit. If there's a downside to the recognition being give to the 964, it's that the cars are less likely to see modification and personalization in the name of investment. Part of what drew me to the 964 was that I could make it mine by customizing the interior a bit and doing some tasteful (to me) upgrades to enhance the car. I couldn't do this to other cars that were concours type vehicles. I'm really attracted to the outlaw culture around the 911 and the 964 is just perfect.
They're both awesome 911s and wonderful examples of Porsche's continuous evolution.
10-24-2014, 11:48 AM
#62
Regarding extrapolating relative popularity from 964 vs. 993 production numbers, keep in mind that the US economy was in bad shape in 1989, when the 964 was introduced, and only started to emerge from that recession in the mid-1990s, after 964 production had concluded. At the time, one of the significant benefits touted for the 993 was Japanese-style automation replacing the handwork used to manufacture the 964, which enabled Porsche to reduce prices for the 993s, as compared to the 964s. As a result, to be fair, you really can't draw too much infererence as to relative popularity from production numbers.
10-24-2014, 10:15 PM
#63
Burning Brakes
I almost bought a 964 Turbo for something like 20gs 7 or 8 years ago.....what a dummy! Anyways, I've always been in love with the 993 since I was a kid. There were not a lot of them on the roads so when you saw one your jaw would drop.
I had never seen a 964 non-turbo before in person until after I bought my 997 C2S. The Turbo is nice, but in my opinion the narrow body is one of the best looking cars ever built. I was driving and I saw one and I was like...what is that Porsche...I WANT THAT CAR! I did some research......and now I am here! Cheers
I had never seen a 964 non-turbo before in person until after I bought my 997 C2S. The Turbo is nice, but in my opinion the narrow body is one of the best looking cars ever built. I was driving and I saw one and I was like...what is that Porsche...I WANT THAT CAR! I did some research......and now I am here! Cheers
10-25-2014, 09:28 PM
#64
Burning Brakes
Bruce Anderson did everything he could to belittle the "ugly duckling".
Thank you, Bruce, me "in before the party".
I do not believe that C2 manual prices have even hit stride, yet.
Think about it. 200-300k for an RS variant. And rising.
I have driven a 15000 km RS. I prefer the drivability of my "regular" C2.
Thank you, Bruce, me "in before the party".
I do not believe that C2 manual prices have even hit stride, yet.
Think about it. 200-300k for an RS variant. And rising.
I have driven a 15000 km RS. I prefer the drivability of my "regular" C2.
10-26-2014, 11:10 AM
#65
Burning Brakes
11-27-2014, 07:12 PM
#67
Burning Brakes
The 964 is much closer style wise to the 80's Carrera.
While the 993 had an air cooled engine, style wise the 993 is much closer to the 996 and 997.
Carrera front view:
964 front view:
993 front view:
997 front view:
Carrera rear view:
964 rear view:
993 rear view:
996 rear view:
when it comes to a recognizable classic 911. 
11-28-2014, 01:15 AM
#69
Burning Brakes
11-29-2014, 12:46 AM
#70
Burning Brakes
http://www.pca-cwr.org/eventsactivit...15#jd-calendar
A 964 tour for the Vancouver area would be great! Count me in.
