Donnie C

Hello to this forum...
I'm a 7 year Porsche Cayman owner -- my first and, so far, only Porsche. What can i say about the Cayman, I love the lines and the engine layout -- drives like an extension of my mind.

That being said, I am now to a point of thinking to add a nice example of a "traditional" 911 -- definitely air/oil cooled, so 996 and newer is off the table.
Not sure just how to begin, but I want to start learning the in's and out's of my target car -- first choice is a 964. As I understand, the 964's are a bit "modern", good integration of mandated bumpers, and somewhat "affordable". Second choice would be a "late model" SC, which as I understand is even more "traditional" and less "modern" and probably without some creature comforts, but just as much fun and more variable in affordability -- from bargain 20 foot cars to much higher priced.

This forum looks to be the best for getting started, so... let the kibitzing begin!! I appreciate any and all advice on what to look for, what to watch out for and what sort of money am I talking about?

Regards,
Donnie C.

fasterlaster

964 are no longer affordable for the most part in terms of the 'sweet spot' for classic air coolers. Prices are higher than years ago, and continue to rise. My suggestion is to find the one that speaks the most to you and what you want out of it. Any classic can be enjoyed by the right owner.

Navaros911

The 964 and the SC are very different.

They both look like classics, but only one drives like it. This is very important to know before you decide on a car.

So test drive both and see what you think.

I owned both (well a C3 is pretty much an SC) and can tell you the 964 is way more practical and enjoyable as a frequent use sports car. The SC is a real classic car - in stock form that is.

911Jetta

Donnie, you've come to the right place.
Enjoy searching through the forum's awesome collection of threads. Everything you could want to know about 964's is right here. Plus it's a great group of enthusiasts too.

The view of the Cayman's rear fenders from the side mirrors is really nice!

Best,
Udo

Because I like pictures!

Donnie C

Nice photo's 911Jetta....

Just to continue the question -- the 964 is different than a SC... I'll make sure I drive examples of both to calibrate.
But are there any "deal killer" things to look for on either??
I'm sure this question is way too simple for a complex issue --- but its somewhere to start..
D

HiWind

There are some "PPI" threads I used to buy mine; search for those to get a feel for issues

Tarta964

I come from classic cars (2.4T, 2.4E, 3200 targa) and I think that 964 is the better compromise in order to have a classic car with comfort and performance.
Almost (o sure) a daily driver.
911 sc or other bumper o prebumper are less drivable than a 964.

cobalt

Your being modest I would take a C3 over an SC any day of the week. Still one of my favorite classics to drive.

As far as going from a cayman to a 964. That is tough. If you enjoy the cayman (there is no reason you shouldn't) the 964 will seem ancient and require far more driving skill to extract the potential from it. The SC or Carrera's are great cars as well but are much different with their torsion bar suspension. The early torsion bar cars are lighter and more agile but they are no where near as rigid and the suspension deflects which takes getting used to. You also have to consider CIS injection which is perfectly fine when running properly but add a vacuum leak or two and you will be scratching your head for a while.

These cars are classics and in the hands of skilled driver are very capable. My $.02 is it is far easier to go from an SC or 964 to a cayman than it is the other way around. What they do offer the cayman does not is a very visceral interactive experience with a symphony singing behind you in every gear. It is tail happy and light in the front but offers a smile when handled properly and a when you screw up. No aids to help save you when you screw up in fact be careful they will bite you for things the Cayman will not even flinch at.

I have been driving these cars since the 70's and I love them all. My wife recently picked up a 14 Boxster and it is a blast to drive on the street and bit of a bore to drive on the track but handled everything with style and ease.

If you really want a unique experience that will challenge your skills and excite your sole you have come to the right place IMO the 964 is the best of everything rolled up into one package but I am old school.

Drive as much as you can, no two air cooled 911's are exactly the same and just because one might not feel right doesn't mean the next won't feel great assuming you like the experience at all.

Best luck.

Donnie C

Thanks Cobalt...
Actually, I'm not thinking of going "from" my Cayman to the "classic" but to have them both. The Cayman is a kick to drive (especially since I've gone with PSS9 coil overs, new sway bar, Cayman R height/alignment specs, etc.) As such, the Cayman will continue as the "track toy".

The idea for the classic (e.g. the 964 or SC) was to enjoy the old school experience as well -- and maybe, with good care, have the car not loose money on resale down the road. (full disclosure #2 -- I'll probably will the Cayman to my son and a classic to my daughter -- but that will be a loooonnng time from now, God willing !!).

For sure, I'm drawn to the 964 with coil suspension vs. torsion bar..

What is the sense of where 964 values will be in a few more years??
D

cobalt

Having both is nice. Best of both worlds.

I think all the early Porsche's are great. Any one should give you the classic feel and look. The 964 is more modern and when well maintained far more reliable. I would think if your considering having your daughter drive it the 964 is the smarter choice. Air bags, ABS power steering far better crash protection and better ventilation especially A/C are all pluses. These are the major differences that makes the 964 a great car to drive on the roads today. The earlier cars are missing all of this and safety is a nice plus. Something to be considered.

Down side the dual mass flywheel deprives the car of the free revving engine the earlier cars have and IMO a light weight flywheel is a nice touch to bring that feel back.

I would say prices have climbed considerably. For years the 964 was the redheaded step child that nobody would touch. A bargain entry classic that did not quite fit in. I owned more early cars than I have listed some were less memorable but what always hurt the 964 were the bumpers. Although I always felt the bellows bumpers looked like a last minute retro to comply with US DOT bumper laws they became the iconic look that seems to be synonymous with air cooled 911's the average person associates with.

In the past three years there has been a realization that these cars are not only a great driving experience but are some of the rarest Porsche's made. Porsche's sales were dangerously low prices were very high and people had more interest in SUV's than sports cars in the late 80's early 90's. Because of this speculators have realized that finding a nice clean low mileage 964 is becoming harder all the time. This is driving prices upward and although I think we are beginning to see the beginning of a plateau I don't see prices dropping any time soon. What i think you will find is the pristine clean cars will continue to rise in value while the average 964 will remain stable and the remaining cars will settle out and slip back closer to where they were a few years back.

Assuming I am correct this might be the enthusiasts opportunity to locate a rough example at a reasonable price and if inclined an opportunity to restore it back to its original glory. Although the down sides are parts are getting pricey and scarce and there is still the long nose conversions that have become very popular gobbling up many fair examples to be converted.

I would start searching ASAP it is a sellers market but bargains are still out there. Do your research there is a lot to learn about these cars and they can be expensive to repair especially if they need an engine rebuild. However If there are simple repairs that can be costly (oil seals need replacing, rubber hoses drying out and window seals leaking) don't rule out these cars just consider it part of the buy in and eventually you will be where you want to be.

I have never lost money on any Porsche I owned (cayenne will be the first) You should be safe if you buy smart and invest some time and money into the right car. I always took the approach mechanically sound before cosmetically perfect which works when on a budget. At least you can drive it and enjoy it even if it isn't the prettiest car on the road. Nothing worse than when a car lets you down in some bad traffic due to some mechanical issue not easily diagnosed.

As I am sure you have heard these cars are old and a PPI by a mechanic familiar with the 964 is a must.

best luck shopping is half the fun.