"Number 27" - Lightweight Cobalt C4 project
11-18-2014, 08:51 AM
#61
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
With regard to the ratios issue I've spoken to Colin and am looking into the possibility of moving 5th into 6th and then replacing 3rd, 4th and 5th gear. In any case for what I am paying for the gearbox this is a no brainer. Colin has offered to buy it at a profit from me if we decide to take another route.
11-18-2014, 09:14 AM
#63
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
the only issues I have heard about have resulted from incorrect fitment which is crucial. And I've not heard of it happening on 964s or 993s (though I stand to be corrected), mostly heard of it on some jap cars.
11-18-2014, 12:04 PM
#64
Burning Brakes
Certainly not scaremongering Jack. The tales are of black oil in very few miles due to suspended carbon deposits in the oil. These deposits are non magnetic so don't accumulate on the magnet. They do accumulate in the bearings etc which results in wear and rebuilds. Maybe ok for racing but not on a road car. Best stick with factory LSD.
11-18-2014, 01:04 PM
#65
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Hi Jack,
YOur plans are great, I'm looking forward to following the rest of your build.
Another option instead of the Carbonetic (which I have no previous with) is the Quaife LSD which Nick Fulljames rates very highly. He fiited it one on mine when he did the engine ugrades etc. and I have had no issues whatsover and it certainly does the job.
Good luck,
Paul
YOur plans are great, I'm looking forward to following the rest of your build.
Another option instead of the Carbonetic (which I have no previous with) is the Quaife LSD which Nick Fulljames rates very highly. He fiited it one on mine when he did the engine ugrades etc. and I have had no issues whatsover and it certainly does the job.
Good luck,
Paul
11-18-2014, 01:43 PM
#66
Burning Brakes
Copied from another site...
...I did new synchros, carbonetic clutch and custom diff build by 9m
....Done a few rebuilds now that have had a carbonetic diff in them and they make a mess inside the gearbox ! I thought it was just the running in process and you are supposed to change the oil after X miles but these things are messy. Done one at 5K after installation and it was that dirty and sludged we had to clean everything twice.
Did another one that had covered 30K with the diff in and that one was in a right mess.... we had to replace most of the bearings and soda blast everything.
This is all in my experience and what I have personally seen. I am sure the diff works fantastic but too messy for me.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=982940
I don't see the point of the Quaife diff in a 911 tbh as it only operates under power not under deceleration. The stability under brakes is perhaps the main reason in fitting a LSD.
...I did new synchros, carbonetic clutch and custom diff build by 9m
....Done a few rebuilds now that have had a carbonetic diff in them and they make a mess inside the gearbox ! I thought it was just the running in process and you are supposed to change the oil after X miles but these things are messy. Done one at 5K after installation and it was that dirty and sludged we had to clean everything twice.
Did another one that had covered 30K with the diff in and that one was in a right mess.... we had to replace most of the bearings and soda blast everything.
This is all in my experience and what I have personally seen. I am sure the diff works fantastic but too messy for me.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=982940
I don't see the point of the Quaife diff in a 911 tbh as it only operates under power not under deceleration. The stability under brakes is perhaps the main reason in fitting a LSD.
Last edited by ras62; 11-18-2014 at 06:17 PM.
11-18-2014, 05:03 PM
#68
Or Guard Transmission LSD, they seem to have a loyal following in the US.
I also don't see the point in Quaife again for the loss of stability under braking
Never heard of the Carbonetic LSD until this thread, I know carbon friction plates have been used in dry race clutches for decades, so the Carbonetic design seemed a well thought out solution to me but having read ras62's replies I thought I'd find out a bit more
A very good friend of mine has umteen years of LSD design, testing, racing experience and world championship wins so I picked his brains for a couple of minutes. His experience mirrors what has been said.
With the more traditional metal friction disc LSD's a combination of still discs and molybdenum coated steel plates are used. All diff plates wear over time but this combination the steel particles can be removed easily from the oil using rare earth magnets dotted around the internals of the box and the molywhatsit particles act as a lubricant when mixed with the oil. For anything but a race car this seems like the well worn and safe path to me, especially considering the cost of a gearbox rebuild.
I also don't see the point in Quaife again for the loss of stability under braking
Never heard of the Carbonetic LSD until this thread, I know carbon friction plates have been used in dry race clutches for decades, so the Carbonetic design seemed a well thought out solution to me but having read ras62's replies I thought I'd find out a bit more
A very good friend of mine has umteen years of LSD design, testing, racing experience and world championship wins so I picked his brains for a couple of minutes. His experience mirrors what has been said.
With the more traditional metal friction disc LSD's a combination of still discs and molybdenum coated steel plates are used. All diff plates wear over time but this combination the steel particles can be removed easily from the oil using rare earth magnets dotted around the internals of the box and the molywhatsit particles act as a lubricant when mixed with the oil. For anything but a race car this seems like the well worn and safe path to me, especially considering the cost of a gearbox rebuild.
11-19-2014, 07:22 AM
#70
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I don't see the point of the Quaife diff in a 911 tbh as it only operates under power not under deceleration.
Maybe so but it works a treat and it saved me from getting T-boned by a nutter speeding round a bend in a 40 zone when I was pulling out of a junction and had to step on the gas! So it's already paid for itself and more.
Sorry for the thread hijack
Cheers,
Paul
11-19-2014, 11:02 AM
#71
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Hi Jack,
YOur plans are great, I'm looking forward to following the rest of your build.
Another option instead of the Carbonetic (which I have no previous with) is the Quaife LSD which Nick Fulljames rates very highly. He fiited it one on mine when he did the engine ugrades etc. and I have had no issues whatsover and it certainly does the job.
Good luck,
Paul
YOur plans are great, I'm looking forward to following the rest of your build.
Another option instead of the Carbonetic (which I have no previous with) is the Quaife LSD which Nick Fulljames rates very highly. He fiited it one on mine when he did the engine ugrades etc. and I have had no issues whatsover and it certainly does the job.
Good luck,
Paul
Copied from another site...
...I did new synchros, carbonetic clutch and custom diff build by 9m
....Done a few rebuilds now that have had a carbonetic diff in them and they make a mess inside the gearbox ! I thought it was just the running in process and you are supposed to change the oil after X miles but these things are messy. Done one at 5K after installation and it was that dirty and sludged we had to clean everything twice.
Did another one that had covered 30K with the diff in and that one was in a right mess.... we had to replace most of the bearings and soda blast everything.
This is all in my experience and what I have personally seen. I am sure the diff works fantastic but too messy for me.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=982940
I don't see the point of the Quaife diff in a 911 tbh as it only operates under power not under deceleration. The stability under brakes is perhaps the main reason in fitting a LSD.
...I did new synchros, carbonetic clutch and custom diff build by 9m
....Done a few rebuilds now that have had a carbonetic diff in them and they make a mess inside the gearbox ! I thought it was just the running in process and you are supposed to change the oil after X miles but these things are messy. Done one at 5K after installation and it was that dirty and sludged we had to clean everything twice.
Did another one that had covered 30K with the diff in and that one was in a right mess.... we had to replace most of the bearings and soda blast everything.
This is all in my experience and what I have personally seen. I am sure the diff works fantastic but too messy for me.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=982940
I don't see the point of the Quaife diff in a 911 tbh as it only operates under power not under deceleration. The stability under brakes is perhaps the main reason in fitting a LSD.
I've spoken to others about carbonetic and understand that as long as the oil is changed regualarly (every 3000 miles or so of normal use) they do not caue problems. I only do about 3000 miles per year so it should not be an issue. However am reconsidering this choice seeing the feedback from you and others.
Or Guard Transmission LSD, they seem to have a loyal following in the US.
I also don't see the point in Quaife again for the loss of stability under braking
Never heard of the Carbonetic LSD until this thread, I know carbon friction plates have been used in dry race clutches for decades, so the Carbonetic design seemed a well thought out solution to me but having read ras62's replies I thought I'd find out a bit more
A very good friend of mine has umteen years of LSD design, testing, racing experience and world championship wins so I picked his brains for a couple of minutes. His experience mirrors what has been said.
With the more traditional metal friction disc LSD's a combination of still discs and molybdenum coated steel plates are used. All diff plates wear over time but this combination the steel particles can be removed easily from the oil using rare earth magnets dotted around the internals of the box and the molywhatsit particles act as a lubricant when mixed with the oil. For anything but a race car this seems like the well worn and safe path to me, especially considering the cost of a gearbox rebuild.
I also don't see the point in Quaife again for the loss of stability under braking
Never heard of the Carbonetic LSD until this thread, I know carbon friction plates have been used in dry race clutches for decades, so the Carbonetic design seemed a well thought out solution to me but having read ras62's replies I thought I'd find out a bit more
A very good friend of mine has umteen years of LSD design, testing, racing experience and world championship wins so I picked his brains for a couple of minutes. His experience mirrors what has been said.
With the more traditional metal friction disc LSD's a combination of still discs and molybdenum coated steel plates are used. All diff plates wear over time but this combination the steel particles can be removed easily from the oil using rare earth magnets dotted around the internals of the box and the molywhatsit particles act as a lubricant when mixed with the oil. For anything but a race car this seems like the well worn and safe path to me, especially considering the cost of a gearbox rebuild.
Looking at both guard and gripper as alternatives..
No problem at all, appreciate it. Will speak to Tom about this option. As others am a bit concerned about crud collecting in there but I guess keeping it clean should not be too much of an issue.
11-19-2014, 11:10 AM
#72
Three Wheelin'
OS Giken make a nice G50 lsd. Not cheap but basically indestructable.
Ras is quoting Sports and classic from pistonheads and they are genuine experts. Carbonetic make great lsds but i can see the concern if they share oil with gearbox.
Ras is quoting Sports and classic from pistonheads and they are genuine experts. Carbonetic make great lsds but i can see the concern if they share oil with gearbox.
11-19-2014, 02:44 PM
#73
Three Wheelin'
No problem with crud collecting as the gap isn't that tight. Anything dropping in falls through the gap and gets blown out the door jam.
11-21-2014, 11:03 AM
#75
Rennlist Member
There are a lot of things that need to be changed to convert from C4 to C2 if you have any questions I am going through it now I am happy to help.
I will say that all the colors are great but to change a cobalt blue to any other color is sacrilege. I almost opted fro Arrow blue for my track car build but I wanted period correct so Maritime won out. Riviera is great color as well.
Cobalt is the best color period. I am not biased in any way. LOL
I will say that all the colors are great but to change a cobalt blue to any other color is sacrilege. I almost opted fro Arrow blue for my track car build but I wanted period correct so Maritime won out. Riviera is great color as well.
Cobalt is the best color period. I am not biased in any way. LOL